Talk:Islam/Archives/01

-- Poetlister 18:07, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Be neutral
The page is full of anti-islamism, you should think again when you put a christian and a jewish scholars only, What I mean you should put arab people and muslim people in this page too BE fair!!

From a non-Muslim
The collection of quotes here is abominable, especially those describing Islam, many of which are outright racism and barbarism. That doesn't mean they should be removed, but they need to be supplemented by more favourable quotes. Please, ANYONE who has access to good translations, expand this page.

Rephrase 'Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people.'
Please rephrase 'Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people.' Stilted. 140.185.96.57 11:51, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Systematic Vilifying of the Holy Scripture
Obviously, there are two things terribly wrong with this page:

1. The translations are completely preposterous, in fact they don't even match with their references linked to M.M. Pickthall's English translation.

2. Only those verses have been taken from the Holy Quran which highlight the Wrath of Allah, and as I said before... WITH WRONG TRANSLATIONS. There is no mention of the verses which exemplify the Mercies of Allah, as far as I can remember there are more verses of Allah's Mercy in the Holy Quran than His Wrath. This has to be balanced otherwise it is an obliviously wrongly biased page, and should be wiped off accordingly.


 * Please cite a single example with the "WRONG TRANSLATION." In fact, all translations on this page accurately convey the meaning of the originals, although they are often abridged. For example, Sura 2:17–18 is translated as "Allah has blinded the disbelievers." The Pickthall translation you prefer reads "&hellip; Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not." Both accurately convey the meaning of the original: "مَثَلُهُمْ كَمَثَلِ الَّذِي اسْتَوْقَدَ نَاراً فَلَمَّا أَضَاءتْ مَا حَوْلَهُذَهَبَ اللّهُ بِنُورِهِمْ وَتَرَكَهُمْ فِي ظُلُمَاتٍ لاَّ يُبْصِرُونَ صُمٌّبُكْمٌ عُمْيٌ فَهُمْ لاَ يَرْجِعُونَ" It is simply not true that these translations are wrong. Wikipedia can be edited freely&mdash;if you prefer Pickthall or Arberry, or wish to add the Qur'anic mercies, please feel free to do so. Finally, I don't understand how you could believe that simply writing down a list of Qur'anic passages amounts to a "Systematic Vilification of the Holy Scripture" unless you believe that the Qur'an itself is vile, which I hope is not true. أبو العلا المعري 16:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

3. There is one interesting quote from Mahatma Gandhi that I think is relevant to this article:

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

Both parties can find themselves here :)

racism
first of all, we all know that Islam today is not the most popular and liked religion, and in America it is hated. when people think of Islam or a Muslim, the first thing that comes to mind is terrorist and this is as sad as it gets. you wikipedia people call yourself neutral but you dare destroy the meaning of Islam by totally disfiguring the original meaning of these quotes from Allah. you do realise that your website is very popular, so please, do everyone a favor and help show the real message of Islam as opposed to trying to bring it down some more. YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES seriously!!!! if you knew a thing or two about Islam, you would know that THE MEANING OF THESE QUOTES HAS BEEN LOST THROUGH THE TRANSLATION FROM ARABIC TO ENGLISH! you should change this quote page now! i don't have a source for this, just truth!
 * I'm sorry to see you embarrassed, but Wikiquote is a collection of quotation, not the place for discussion. Regretfully I don't find no particular argument on this article. Please try to discuss more specific things rather than your general opinion about the subject. Thanks. --Aphaia 22:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

More then racism
These so called quotes fro Quran not only misinterprets the text, they are biased and in-comprehensive. There is much more to Quran than fire, hell, nonbelievers, and burning. Quraan is full of mercy, wisdom, and love.
 * Hi, we invite anyone to edit our website, including you! Please add appropriate quotes from good translation, and don't forget the book and verse. Thanks. --Aphaia 22:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Something must be done
With all due respect, this page is impossibly insulting. Please get someone to do something about it!

most of what is written down here is not true and very offensive. i believe this page should be deleted completely and if not so, someone educated should edit it.

Wow. This page has obviously been hijacked by anti-Islam propagandists. There's hardly any quote from a respected, modern scholar of Islam, only the opinions of medieval or renaissance Western supremacists and Christian fanatics, which almost all modern shcolars consider garbage. To be fair, the flood of partisan, unsourced quotes should be greatly reduced and replaced with relevant ones. Wikipedia is not supposed to promote the agendas of hate groups.

Hello!!
The quotes that commence the text seem rather harsh, and their meanings distorted in some. I feel this is an erroneous technique because somebody outside the religion coming to the page would surely be devastated and overwhelmed by the quotes, even though some are misinterpreted. I believe a more unbiased and balanced approach to the web page regarding the subject would be better. Thanks!


 * There is already a Quran on infidels article with the same contents.--Inesculent 20:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Dis-believers
Apparently no one what we do, people keep sticking the Quranic verses on dis-believers back in this article. Those verses of part of the Quran on infidels article.--Inesculent 06:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Quotes
The quotes in the sourced section represent a highly anti-Islam POV selection, against NPOV policy. I propose to delete many of them. BhaiSaab 18:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Moderate Islam
I support the merge. This is scarcely worth a separate page on WQ.--Cato 21:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

How is it possible?
How is it possible that the editors that review this site fail to see the inherent bias in the quotes provided? How about starting with primary sources, from an Islamic perspective (as opposed to an evangelical one)?

Agree with above
I agree with the immediately preceding statement. This page has obviously been dominated by special interests and cannot be claimed to be neutral. Some editors should be stepping in on this immediately, and if not, I question their impartiality as well.

NPOV
Wikiquote policy here: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Neutral_point_of_view "Wikiquote has a strict neutral point of view (NPOV) policy, which basically states that its mission is best served not by advancing or detracting particular points of view on any given subject, but by trying to present a fair, neutral description of the facts, among which are the facts that various interpretations and points of view exist." Other commentators have already expressed numerous times that this page fails in that regard miserably. Why is this issue being ignored?


 * Maybe because you and your other two possible sockpuppets all posted within 10 minutes of one another? Do you expect instantaneous response to everything you post?  I say possible sockpuppets because I find it more than fishy that three anonymous IPs post on the same thing supporting one another in such a short time frame while having no other history on WQ. -- Greyed 18:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There is always going to be an inherent bias with most editors of most subjects; ideally a fair balance can be attained, but with over 14,000 pages the few regular editors here, cannot be expected to insure that there is, especially when pages dealing with political, religious or other ideologies are often edited by people who have some narrow and specific agenda. Mass removal of quotes and replacement of them with a new mass of poorly formatted (and to a great extent only loosely relevant material) is certainly not the proper way to go about editing a page.

The above portion of this comment was the response I had made to the first of several anonymous comments above, when I noted there was an edit conflict. I also have been a bit frustrated with some recent editors (and possibly mere trolls) making new section headings when a discussion is obviously a continuation of the previous brief subject and section. Please simply edit sections and don't create new ones when you are dealing with the same subject. ~ Kalki 18:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ten year after and quotes here and in other pages about Islam still are not fairly represented. Rupert loup (talk) 13:14, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

incorrectly described as destruction
Tell that to any and all Christians, Jews, Hinus or any other belief in an isolamic majority country, how bout Lebanon?

John Quincy Adams
See subpage for unsourced quotes (if you can source them, add them, they're still, as a whole, quite POV though) Talk:Islam/Unsourced Peace and Passion ("I'm listening....") 03:30, 7 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The quotes by John Quincy Adams are likely completely fabricated. The only "source" I can find them attributed to is The American Annual Register, Chapters X-XIV [pp. 267-402], 1827-28-29. New York, 1830. Thing is, you can check it out on google books (Volume 4) and there are only 234 pages.


 * seems legit:


 * The Annual Register, Part 1, 1827-8-9 (excerpt at books.google.com) G. & C. Carvill, 1835 (according too books.google.com) / William Jackson, and E. & G. W. Blunt, 1835 (according to its title)
 * The United States Magazine and Democratic Review, Volume 36 (excerpt at books.google.com), Langtree and O'Sullivan, 1855
 * According to the National Center for Constitutional Studies it’s a part of “John Quincy Adams’ 136-page series of essays on Islam”. ...there is, however, noted scholar 128.2.51.144 with a dissenting view. --tickle me 09:18, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The truth, as ever, lies between the two foregoing positions. The text is genuine; but it was not written by John Quincy Adams. It was written by Joseph Blunt, editor of the American Annual Register for 1827-9. You can confirm this for yourself here: http://www.archive.org/stream/p1americanannual29blunuoft#page/274/mode/1up . Look through the front material of that volume, and through the chapter in which that quote appears; nowhere is JQA cited as an author of anything.


 * Your secondary sources, namely the NCCS and the The United States Magazine and Democratic Review, are faulty. The NCCS simply repeats the source without investigating it, and the USM&DR doesn't even give a source. The latter has simply copied the text from the original without even a gesture towards attribution.


 * Since this quote has been wrongly attributed to Adams, I will be deleting it from the page and watching to ensure that it does not return. - Metalello (talk) 06:35, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I stand corrected. Yet, since dubious figures as Osama bin Laden are quoted, why not w:Joseph Blunt? He seems quotable in his own right. --tickle me 08:27, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Do what thou wilt. - Metalello (talk) 00:38, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Non-notable and irrelevant quotes

 * 1 Islam must dominate and is not to be dominated.
 * Hassan Banna, Fitzgerald: The Duty of Due Diligence, July 20, 2007


 * 2 When the Imam said that "the relations with the America are like the relations between a wolf and a sheep," he meant that the tension in these relations would continue until America renounces its imperialist essence — and it is not about to do so for the time being. The Imam was talking about the struggle between Islam and America, not about compromising with America. He said: "We will not allow you to have interests in the world of Islam."
 * Hasan Rahimpur Azghadi, in an televised address Iranian leader: "We Are Stronger Than America and the West (June 2006).


 * 3 If the Qur'an was the word of God, it had been dictated on a very bad day.
 * Christopher Hitchens, Free Inquiry Magazine, Volume 21, Number 4


 * 4 When people go up and blow themselves up, and the religious leaders of this religion say nothing, something's wrong. It's not just a handful of extremists. If you buy the Koran, read it for yourself, and it's in there. The violence that it preaches is there.
 * Franklin Graham


 * 5 To take one instance that can hardly be called negligible, the Arabic words written on the outside of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem are different from any version that appears in the Koran.
 * Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great (2007). See also a video of his reading and an excerpt.


 * 6 This is a vile culture and if you think for a second that it's willing to just live in the sands of God's armpit, you've got another thing coming. Your dog, however, can walk side by side, your dog is allowed to have its own dog house... You can send your dog to school to learn tricks, sit, beg, do all that stuff - none of the women have that advantage.
 * Gene Simmons.


 * 7 I’m tired of being told that Islam is a “Religion of Peace,” when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family “honor;” of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren’t “believers;” of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for “adultery;” of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur’an and Shari’a law tells them to.
 * Robert A. Hall, I'm Tired (February 19, 2009)

Xsaorapa (talk) 06:58, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) The first quote has for source Jihadwatch.com which is clearly non-notable, unreliable and biased.
 * 2) The video no longer exists, I didn't found a reliable and notable source for this quote.
 * 3) This quote is more related to the topic about the Quran than Islam itself.
 * 4) (Dead link) Also it does not seem to have been widely quoted by notable sources.
 * 5) Unrelated to the topic.
 * 6) No mention of Islam, and according to the source itself: "Israeli-born musician explains he was specifically referring to 'extremists'"
 * 7) Quote taken from some unknown blog, the source needs to be a notable and reliable publication.


 * I agree that that quotes 2,4,5,6&7 are not notable and/or lack relevance. Quote 1 belongs on the page it seems to me as long as it is an authentic Banna quotation and quote 3 is perfectly acceptable as long as it is deemed noteworthy enough, which I think it is.
 * Edit: Maybe quote 3 is not noteworthy enough because it is specifically about the Quran and not Islam but that seems debatable.

IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * 7 is the personal blog of Robert A. Hall, an US State Senator. However the quote is about Religion of peace and should be there not here. I agree with the rationale on the other quotes. Rupert loup (talk) 09:23, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * 1 was attributed to Banna by Mitt Romney in No Apology: The Case for American Greatness, Page 67 and by Jewish Virtual Library.
 * This page is a TOTAL mess! Sources need to be checked. Rupert loup (talk) 10:49, 18 July 2018 (UTC)