Talk:Quran

This article was preserved after a vote for its deletion. See its archived VfD entry for details. Fys. &#147;Ta fys aym&#148;. 22:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Organization
This page should probably be arrranged by sura and not by more arbitrary topics. I am posting some quotes that were posten on the page for Muhammad here for now, until I have the time to deal with this and a few other pages more thoroughly. ~ Kalki 16:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war. Qur’an:9:5
 * The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed. Qur’an:9:112
 * Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission. Qur’an:9:29
 * Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah. Qur’an:8:39


 * So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world). Qur’an:8:39


 * Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them. Qur’an:9:14


 * Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place. Qur’an:9:38


 * Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you. Qur’an:9:123


 * The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause. Qur’an:9:88


 * O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding. Qur’an:8:65


 * The revelation of the scripture is from Allah, The Mighty, The Wise. Qur’an:45:2


 * And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you. Qur’an:16:15


 * Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it. Qur’an: 24:43


 * Just in case anyone is unaware of this, the above quotations are taken out of context, originally by hatemongers making the same kinds of arguments about Muslims that the Nazis used to make against Jews.
 * For example, the very first one seems to say all unbelievers should be killed, but back in the real world this is a passage referring to a specific war being fought in Muhammad's own day, and specific "unbelievers" who had attacked the very people he's addressing. Those specific unbelievers had made a peace treaty with the people he's addressing, then broken it and attacked again. He's saying only to attack those treaty-breakers. The line immediately before that actually mentions this, specifying that the people who hadn't broken treaties were to be treated differently:
 * "Except those of the unbelievers with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves the pious" Qur'an:9:4
 * ...and the line FOLLOWING the "kill the disbelievers" line says that if any disbelievers seek your protection, give it to them:
 * "And if anyone of the unbelievers (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur'an), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not." Qur'an:9:6
 * These hatemonger quips are a great example of how one can lie using exact quotations. They are even more vile and dishonest than if one simply made up entirely fictional quotes and made the same claims. It's as if some atheists posted the "suffer not a witch to live" quote from the Bible and claimed it was proof that Christians secretly want to murder children who are Trick-or-Treating. — Kazvorpal (talk) 15:50, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Quran as political charter
The Quran is a political document used by many Islamic nations as a constitution; Libya's constitution (Article 2 of the one adopted in 1977), Saudi Arabia's Basic Law, Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, etc. make this clear. Ergo, I add to this page.--Inesculent 11:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Quotes about the Qu'ran by Notable People Being Deleted or Suppressed
Several quotes about the Qu'ran by notable people are being deleted or suppressed. I have included them here within a comment so that they may be easily added back should this problem recur. Écrasez l&#39;infâme 03:04, 13 July 2008 (UTC) <!--

Quotes about the Qur'an

 * If the Qur'an was the word of God, it had been dictated on a very bad day.
 * Christopher Hitchens, Free Inquiry Magazine, Volume 21, Number 4


 * Islam in its origins is just as shady and approximate as those from which it took its borrowings. It makes immense claims for itself, invokes prostrate submission or "surrender" as a maxim to its adherents, and demands deference and respect from nonbelievers into the bargain. There is nothing—absolutely nothing—in its teachings that can even begin to justify such arrogance and presumption.
 * Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great (2007). See also a video of his reading and an excerpt.


 * The prophet died in the year 632 of our own approximate calendar. The first account of his life was set down a full hundred and twenty years later by Ibn Ishaq, whose original was lost and can only be consulted through its reworked form, authored by Ibn Hisham, who died in 834. Adding to this hearsay and obscurity, there is no agreed-upon account of how the Prophet's followers assembled the Koran, or of how his various sayings (some of them written down by secretaries) became codified. … It is said by some Muslim authorities that during the first caliphate of Abu Bakr, immediately after Muhammad's death, concern arose that his orally transmitted words might be forgotten. So many Muslim soldiers had been killed in battle that the number who had the Koran safely lodged in their memories had become alarmingly small. It was therefore decided to assemble every living witness, together with "pieces of paper, stones, palm leaves, shoulder-blades, ribs and bits of leather" on which sayings had been scribbled, and give them to Zaid ibn Thabit, one of the Prophet's former secretaries, for an authoritative collation. Once this had been done, the believers had something like an authorized version. If true, this would date the Koran to a time fairly close to Muhammad's own life. But we swiftly discover that there is no certainty or agreement about the truth of the story. Some say that it was Ali—the fourth and not the first caliph, and the founder of Shiism—who had the idea. Many others—the Sunni majority—assert that it was Caliph Uthman, who reigned from 644 to 656, who made the finalized decision. Told by one of his generals that soldiers from different provinces were fighting over discrepant accounts of the Koran, Uthman ordered Zaid ibn Thabit to bring together the various texts, unify them, and have them transcribed into one. When this task was complete, Uthman ordered standard copies to be sent to Kufa, Basra, Damascus, and elsewhere, with a master copy retained in Medina. Uthman thus played the canonical role that had been taken, in the standardization and purging and censorship of the Christian Bible, by Irenaeus and by Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria. The roll was called, and some texts were declared sacred and inerrant while others became "apocryphal." Outdoing Athanasius, Uthman ordered that all earlier and rival editions be destroyed. Even supposing this version of events to be correct, which would mean that no chance existed for scholars ever to determine or even dispute what really happened in Muhammad's time, Uthman's attempt to abolish disagreement was a vain one. The written Arabic language has two features that make it difficult for an outsider to learn: it uses dots to distinguish consonants like "b" and "t," and in its original form it had no sign or symbol for short vowels, which could be rendered by various dashes or comma-type marks. Vastly different readings even of Uthman's version were enabled by these variations. … To take one instance that can hardly be called negligible, the Arabic words written on the outside of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem are different from any version that appears in the Koran.
 * Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great (2007). See also a video of his reading and an excerpt.

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 * The situation is even more shaky and deplorable when we come to the hadith, or that vast orally generated secondary literature which supposedly conveys the sayings and actions of Muhammad … As one might expect, the six authorized collections of hadith … were put together centuries after the events they purport to describe. One of the most famous of the six compilers, Bukhari, died 238 years after the death of Muhammad. Bukhari is deemed unusually reliable and honest by Muslims, and seems to have deserved his reputation in that, of the three hundred thousand attestations he accumulated in a lifetime devoted to the project, he ruled that two hundred thousand of them were entirely valueless and unsupported. Further exclusion of dubious traditions and questionable isnads reduced his grand total to ten thousand hadith. You are free to believe, if you so choose, that out of this formless mass of illiterate and half-remembered witnessing the pious Bukhari, more than two centuries later, managed to select only the pure and undefiled ones that would bear examination.
 * Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great (2007). See also a video of his reading and an excerpt.

Requested move
 It has been suggested that this article or section be moved to Quran. (Discuss) Use English punctuation in English language wiki, if there is genuinely a missing letter insert the letter if not then don't use that punctuation. Traditionally the transliteration has been Koran, Quran is a slightly altered sound and is more popular recently. We have an English Language word we should use it. 78.144.176.195 11:51, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Do not support: This version of the title is not meant to use the apostrophe for the English meaning of "missing character" but rather for the pronunciation ambiguity. This is by far the accepted (modern) academic English rendering of the term (Note older English will use Koran (along with Mohammedan, which is clearly no longer acceptable)).
 * Peace and Passion &#9774; ''("I'm listening....")
 * Support: IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 10:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC).
 * Support: That's how it is on Wikipedia, that's how it should be on here. – Illegitimate Barrister, 22:37, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Support: I support Wikipedia's decision to adopt the more commonly used English name. ~ Ningauble (talk) 17:56, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Quotes from "Qur'an on peace"
"Qur'an on peace" was nominated for deletion, and the consensus was to merge it here. Most of the quotes on that page could already be found here, but three could not. I am putting those here for the editors of this page to decide if they should be included here, and if these are the best versions/translations to use.


 * And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace,


 * Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection).


 * And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin.

Cheers! BD2412 T 21:48, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Arabic text
Do we need to include the Arabic text in this article? There is no Hebrew or Greek text in the Bible article. It should be removed to reduce article size. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 10:38, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes because Wikiquote strives for accuracy. WQ:WQ It is a common practice to add the original text of a quote if it is available and the current state of other articles is irrelevant here. Rupert Loup 17:13, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * WQ:Q does not say that accuracy includes adding the original text. Accuracy in the translation is the job of the translator, not of the wikiquote reader. There are good arguments on both sides, therefore I'm making a proposal here:

Proposal: Remove Arabic text

 * Support. Because the article length and size is already very long, saving space in this way would improve readability. For the readers who can (and want) to read the Arabic text, there is always Arabic wikiquote. Most readers on English WQ are just interested in reading the English text. Other articles also don't include the original text, like the Leo Tolstoy or the Bible article, because of all these reasons. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 08:21, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Translation
This (and other) articles frequently link to the Saheeh International translation (at quran.com). This is generally not regarded as among the best English translations. It would be more neutral to instead link to one of the websites which include and compare different translations of a given verse. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 21:16, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

last edit on this page
I happened to see [this edit] which, I think, was made by a newbie goodfaith wikiquotian who was trying to revert what they thought was vandelism (I am just speculating). However it appears this edit introduced another error instead.

Can someone with more knowledge than me have a look? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 21:59, 2 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I think it's ok. "Mahomet" was a common 19th-century spelling, and that's the spelling I find when I look elsewhere on the internet (for example, here). Antandrus (talk) 22:06, 2 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding User:Antandrus. This is what enwiki says about Mahomet. Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 14:34, 3 December 2021 (UTC)