User talk:50.253.228.25

I reverted your edits to Alexander the Great, because, as I noted in my first reversion of them, though Alexander is acknowledged to have been ruler of the Ancient Greek kingdom of Macedon the modern distinctions made between Greek and Macedonian ethnicity have about as much relevance to his as distinctions made between modern Irish and other modern British islanders to that of the ancient Britons. Much of the genealogy and languages of all would be quite different. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 17:39, 6 February 2015 (UTC) + tweak

Response to Kalki
The problem we still face is the reference of Macedon being a Greek kingdom. Macedon was not Greek, nor was Alexander the Great.
 * Macedon is generally accepted to have been a part of the ancient Hellenic culture of the entire region, and modern ethnic and legalistic rivalries and stupidities which seek to exclusively claim the term "Macedonian" are petty and absurd squabbles with little relevance to the ancient designations. One might as well insist that the people of "Athens" and "Sparta" were not Greek, because they were rival societies with little formal association, before the conquests of Philip and Alexander. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 16:22, 26 February 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Response to Kalki
Lets prove why Macedon was not Greek and Macedonia is not Greek shall we:

1:If all the Greeks were democratic city states it would be impossible for Macedon to be Greek because Macedon was a Kingdom with a monarch, such as Alexander the Great.

2:Athens is not even relevant any more other than being a piece of history, nor is Sparta. Macedonia is its own country and it is not Greek.

3:You called Macedon a Hellenic Kingdom, did you not? Well did you know that the Hellenic League was reformed to prevent Philip II and his Macedonians from invading Greece. It failed in its goal, for even the city states of Greece could not protect themselves from the people they deemed as barbarians.

As for you calling these "stupidities", I would love to see how you respond when someone takes away your name and all you have accomplished, and claims it as their own.

With all due respect, maybe this time you will respond sooner than 20 days. Have a good one!
 * With all due respect, I do not believe I should actively seek out every incident of obsessive promotion of various ethnic or ideological delusions and confusions which might be posted at any time on any of the thousands of user pages here, nor actively respond to many of them, but in some cases I might make exceptions. In encountering some of these I might decide to post a response in order to clearly repudiate some of the more ridiculous and contemptible assertions which have been made.
 * My own encounters with many forms of irrational but deep-rooted prejudices, presumptions and dispositions of many people impel me to doubt the effectiveness of reason in countering some of the more extreme forms of ethnic bigotries, especially where they continue to be glorified by some who receive various forms of approval or more substantial rewards for doing so, but I have faith that most people who are reasonable can benefit from having many pertinent factual aspects of situations exposed, and falsehoods of many types repudiated or refuted.


 * I have little doubt of your sincerity in believing yourself to be asserting the truth, so I do not consider you a mere troll or deliberate vandal, but I have much doubt of your ability to actually discern many pertinent truths. I make no claim to be an expert on the complex history of the Balkan regions and peoples, but believe that your assertions plainly exhibit an extreme deficiency in knowledge of their general history, and extreme infection of modern ethnic idolatries, dogmatism, prejudices and presumptions. What you seem to be willing to accept as "proof" of your assertions amounts largely to extreme deficiencies of logic extended from a base of false premises. Taking the ridiculous assertions which you seem to wish to elevate into "proofs" far more seriously than they deserve, I will respond to your "points" by pointing out:


 * 1 — I never asserted anything so stupid as to imply that all the other Greek societies were all democratic, and certainly can and do assert that forms of politics employed at various times have absolutely nothing to do with any supposed proof or disproof of the ethnic matters in contention here. Athens developed notions of democracy which were somewhat advanced for those times and eras, but it and the many other societies of the Greeks had various systems of government in various eras. Though considered "barbarians" by many in the city-states, the Macedonians of that time were some of the many Greek speaking regional tribes and Kingdoms NOT organized into city-states, often in rivalry with many who had. The first governmental alliances of all the major tribes and city-states of the Greek peoples occurred with formation and extension of what has become known as League of Corinth with the conquests of the forces of Philip and Alexander, including the destruction of Thebes and the eventual defeat of Spartan forces, influence and resistance, to various degrees.


 * 2 — You are attempting to vigorously DISPUTE and DENY the FACTS of HISTORY and then declare "Athens is not even relevant any more other than being a piece of history, nor is Sparta." Then you confute things by asserting "Macedonia is its own country and it is not Greek." The ancient kingdom of Macedon was CERTAINLY Greek in culture and language. Certainly the modern nation of the  Republic of Macedonia is dominated by people who speak the slavic Macedonian language, and are one of many groups with largely slavic origins who are generally believed to have migrated into the Balkan region during eras of the Roman Empire and later, long after the era of Alexander, and have little actual ethnic connection to the ancient Macedonians.
 * To quote the Wikipedia article on the Macedonians (ethnic group):
 * The concept of a "Macedonian" ethnicity, distinct from their Orthodox Balkan neighbours, is seen to be a comparatively newly emergent one. The earliest manifestation of a Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th century, and this was consolidated by Yugoslav governmental policy from the 1940s.
 * That much of the ethnic and political propaganda which developed into an advanced means of control and suppression of ethnically diverse people under the Yugoslavian government of the 20th century still has a pernicious influences on the rational capacities of the minds of many, and the hostilities which have persisted among them, does not surprise me at all.


 * 3 — You continue to display the assumptions fostered by a relatively small group of people who reject almost all rational analysis of historical documentations, archeology, and ethnology in insisting or strongly implying that the modern slavic people of the Republic of Macedonia have more ethnic ties to the ancient Greek people of Alexander's time than those of Greece. While there has been much intermingling of genealogies in the many vicious wars of that region of the world, I believe most people with any familiarity with the history of the region would count that as an extremely perverse ethnic delusion, which began to develop strongly in the 19th century, when many local ethnic hostilities began to flare with eventual worldwide consequences, and the advent of truly global forms of warfare, terrorism, and efforts towards extension of absolutist and totalitarian tyranny.
 * Such assaults against the Humanity of all continue to plague all Humankind, but there are also growing means of reason and truth to break through and reveal many forms of delusions and lies for what they are. In this the wisest ever place their trust and hope and efforts, as they endeavor to promote truth rather than error, and respect for diversity of human dispositions rather than various forms of absolutist supremacy which are often fostered among the weak and easily misled.
 * I personally have no more quarrel with a modern group of people calling their nation Macedonia because it is in part of the region once dominated by the ancient Kingdom, than I have with the people of the U. S. identifying themselves as "Americans" despite most having little ethnic relation to either the most ancient inhabitants of the regions in which they live, nor to the navigator Amerigo Vespucci who realized that the land masses European people had begun to explore in the 15th and 16th centuries were not merely extensions of Asia.
 * Something I am not inclined to either promote or sanction are delusions that there are strong ethnic or racial ties with some widely divergent historical entities because of some of the mistaken assessments that can be fostered through false absolutist assumptions of "ethnic superiority" based upon such names, nor am I inclined to let them fester unopposed without a dose of the antiseptic light of truth, if I have the time and opportunity to attend to them. I have been so busy with other matters, I did not notice your alterations to the Alexander page yesterday, which others have now quite properly reverted, after some of my previous reverting of your edits.
 * Having had personal friendships with people of both Slavic and Greek descent and origin, as well as many other people of many diverse origins, I find the squabbles of those obsessed with misleading themselves and others with any promotion of various confusions and exaggerations about many aspects of ethnic identities rather appalling in ANY case. At present, there are other even more complex matters which demand my attention, if they are to eventually come to a sensible resolution, and upon these I have been primarily focused. So it goes… ⨀∴☥☮♥∵ॐ … Blessings. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 17:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC) +tweaks

Response to Kalki
I respect your eagerness to learn nothing but the truth, but you are mistaken in many of your historical facts and deny any real truth.

I see you as looking for light in the middle of darkness, needing such as a page full of Greek propaganda to "support" a mouthful of insults.

If you listen, maybe you'll learn. Ever hear of the Greek's genocide upon the Macedonians. Probably not because you ignored me saying "I would love to see how you respond when someone takes away your name and all you have accomplished, and claims it as their own.". You are brainwashed just like many people today, by Greek propaganda.

I will not fill up the page with hundreds of words where very few are accurate or make sense.

You have said you will not waste your time with me because you have more pressing matters (I'm sure being a wiki-guardian is hard work), but instead I urge you to look up the Greek's genocide upon the Macedonians. That contains countless times of Greek racism towards Macedonians up to this day. Thousands killed. Thousands exiled. Thousands denied. Thousands robbed. Thousands silenced.

I have much more experience with these things than you, because my family has been one of the thousands.

So why is this of relevance? Macedonians were robbed of their home and history. Part of that history being Alexander the Great. Greeks claim these things as their own. Very beginning: Denied the existence of Macedonians. Now: Claiming Macedonians as Greeks. But the brainwashed will be brainwashed. The destroyers of truth will destroy the truth. I just hope to bring the truth to someone who loves it, maybe thats not really you.

You will continue to find Greek propaganda throughout life if you dig into this stuff at some point, just keep me in mind. Very few will ever support Macedonia because Greece was so effective in its ethnic cleansing and brainwashing/blinding of the public, but those who stand for Macedonia stand because they have experience, because they know the truth, and because of their forefathers, those who died to keep the fire lit. Those who stand with Greece only stand because they are programmed to look at it through the majorities eyes, not the minorities. If there is one thing you can learn from history, its that the innocent minorities who are put through the wringer and are hidden from the public will be remembered in the future for what really happened. For Macedonia, it may not be today or even in this lifetime, but the truth shall be restored.

May I also add that as Macedonians were gaining independence from Yugoslavia, Greece changed the regions name to Macedonia in order to prevent the Macedonians from calling themselves in unity, Macedonia. The Macedonians therefore called themselves "The Republic of Macedonia" and their flag was the Argead dynasty's symbol. Greece then would not allow The Republic of Macedonia to enter NATO unless they changed their flag to the 8-rayed sun and changed their name to "The Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia". The Macedonians obliged and 20 years later, still no NATO. It is now again "The Republic of Macedonia". Why are the Greeks so fearful? They don't want the truth to come out.

PS: Quoting Wikipedia as support for its counterpart is like me saying, "The sun will blow up tomorrow and as proof, the book I wrote says it.", its not a very strong ground to stand on.


 * There are many forms of racism and ethnocentricity and many claims and counter claims of genocide among competing and hostile factions and groups of people worldwide. Alexander, though brilliant and courageous in many ways was certainly no saint. He was a military skillful, and yet also a ruthless invader and conqueror, not only of traditional enemies, but anyone he could prevail against, and early in his career was actually involved in a genocidal campaign against Thebes in his quest for power and control over others — and thus is a VERY strange character to wish to claim as an iconic hero for a group accusing others of genocidal aims. You state "the brainwashed will be brainwashed" — indeed. It is appears that you seem to sincerely believe that overwhelming and enduring and incontestable might of the Greeks throughout the centuries have succeeded in brainwashing most historians of all of the rest of the world for the last few millennia into "falsely believing" that Alexander the Great actually was a speaker of Greek and was not some sort of an ethnic Slav, like most modern Macedonians — and have thus "stolen" the "rightful heritage" of the slavic peoples of modern Macedonia from them. The extent of such genuinely immense power to totally hide the prolific details of what you seem to accept as history is truly INCREDIBLE — in the literal sense of that word: unbelievable — at least to all but those steeped in various forms of ethnic and political propaganda to the contrary. I do not find it very difficult at all to dare to assert that MOST of the world has NOT been "controlled" by some powerful brainwashing influence of the Greeks, and can state that to so adamantly insist that it has been is to truly expose such general propositions and claims to even further ridicule than they have been in recent years.
 * I will also note that you quite causally and falsely assert that I have stated I would "not waste your time with me because you have more pressing matters". I have actually spent much of my time responding to your assertions, but do NOT believe it is my obligation to do so. You seem to derisively state that you are "sure being a wiki-guardian is hard work" assuming that to be the primary matter on my mind, and what is primarily keeping me busy — and it is NOT. Wiki work CAN be difficult and frustrating, but it is VOLUNTEER work, and I genuinely do NOT enjoy having to respond to claims and assertions which MOST people find ridiculous with extensive responses which probably DO provide them far more attention than they actually merit, relative to MANY other things I could be doing. I obviously DO reject many of your claims, and find many of them absurdly ill-informed and extremely biased, and I obviously am NOT in a minority in doing so. I have stated, unlike some Greeks, well aware of the false connotations of legitimate association with ancient Macedonian peoples which the name "Macedonia" has given the ethnic majority of modern Macedonia, I actually have NO objection to the use of the name, but like them, and many others I do object to the EXTREMELY bizarre revisionist history which has been promoted among modern ethnic Macedonians which denies, defies and disregards all credible historical records of over two millennia. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 02:59, 28 February 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Response to Kalki
You obviously have no clue what my last statement was about, do you?

Most of it consisted of the early 20th century genocide in which the Greeks claimed Macedonian history, changed Macedonian names to Greek, and killed/ exiled many Macedonians from their land. Did you even look up what I suggested you to look up?

Know what you are arguing.

Macedonians were and are separate from the Greeks and are directly from Alexander and his people.

I cannot convince one who is convinced so severely by Greek propaganda.

I do admit I harbor some bias, but you have been brainwashed. At least I have some way of thinking for myself and do not just accept what I am spoon fed.

You refer to artifacts, most made public by the Greeks. The Greeks contort these things into the way they want it to be.

If Philip was "a proud Greek" why was there no Greek writing on his tomb, but there are many lions that have to do with him and Alexander. The lion being the national animal of Macedonia, and Greece not denying the lion like they did Macedonia's flag and name.

In regards to ancient Macedonians speaking Greek, you give me some points to use: -There was an ancient Macedonian language, most documents burned and destroyed by the Greek genocide upon the Macedonians. Many scholars even agree upon this. -Of course Macedonians used some of the Greek language, after all they ruled over all of Greece after they invaded and had dealt with Greeks before during trade. A big part of Alexanders army were Greeks from conquered lands, he needed to lead them so of course he spoke Greek to them. I speak English, but I'm not English.

Everything you stand on is Greek propaganda.

We stand. Small in number compared to people like you because the truth can be hard to find. Again, the truth of Macedonia will be restored despite the people who are blinded like you. Throw your "Facts" at me, but they all can be refuted by the simple fact of stolen history, genocide, and propaganda.

Passion vs Propaganda. Even if I have some bias, my heart beats louder than you speaking what you're fed.

Why do you think the Macedonian minority fights this hard? We obviously don't want more hate, but we will take it if thats whats needed to speak the truth.


 * You certainly have the right to speak the truth of your OPINION that ALL the rest of the world has been BRAINWASHED, and only a noble few of the modern Macedonians know the truth of what REALLY happened, and the vast and powerful conspiracy against them — and most people also have the right to assert their opinions that such opinions are a load of hogwash. To quote the article on Macedonians (ethnic group) in the Wikipedia:
 * A more radical and uncompromising strand of Macedonian nationalism has recently emerged called "ancient Macedonism", or "Antiquisation". Proponents of such views see modern Macedonians as direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians. This policy is facing a criticism by academics as it demonstrates feebleness of archaeology and of other historical disciplines in public discourse, as well as a danger of marginalization of the Macedonian identity.
 * In other words — it is so ridiculously absurd a proposition to MOST people that it makes more educated people advocating legitimate concerns for Macedonian rights and interests seem merely advocates for empowerment of a bunch of irrational lunatics. I believe that sums up the situation, generally. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 04:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC) + tweaks

Response to Kalki
You quote Wikipedia in defense of Wikiquote. Again I say, not a very strong ground.

Your argument is again, very misled. You never heard of this genocide that I keep bringing up, have you because you keep ignoring it. All the "truths" that you come up with have no stance, tell me what archaeological proof do you have that he was Greek? Right after I typed the above statements, and was about to post them, I just realized you have been blocked, which is something I would not have done at this point — but as I have just noticed this, I will get on with other work, and perhaps later examine some of the rationale for a block I actually do not believe was necessary, despite my strong disagreement with the views you seek to promote. I have a few things I must do, and then must be leaving, so I might not deal further with this matter immediately. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 21:58, 28 February 2015 (UTC) + tweaks
 * I am tired of responding to your nonsensical assertions and demands with anything resembling an inclination to treat them with such respect as they do not deserve. In only slightly more absurd manner I could ask you "what proof can you provide me that you are a human being and not a demon from Hell?" Or, "what proof can you provide me that you are not a mindless brainless computer program designed to irritate others and promote an absurd conspiracy theory that all historians for over 2000 years had been lying about Alexander and the Macedonians being Greeks?" Alexander and his armies in their conquests spread elements of Greek culture throughout his empire. You have presented wild ideas which imply the ancient Macedonian language was something other than one of the many Greek dialects, and there is no credible evidence of this at all, and all the ancient finds indicate ancient Macedonians spoke what was most likely a dialect of Doric Greek, and wrote in Greek. I really do not intend to respond to your nonsense further.