Wikiquote:Village pump archive 57

Feedback on movement names
. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. if necessary.

There are a lot of conversations happening about the future of our movement names. We hope that you are part of these discussions and that your community is represented.

Since 16 June, the Foundation Brand Team has been running a survey in 7 languages about 3 naming options. There are also community members sharing concerns about renaming in a Community Open Letter.

Our goal in this call for feedback is to hear from across the community, so we encourage you to participate in the survey, the open letter, or both. The survey will go through 7 July in all timezones. Input from the survey and discussions will be analyzed and published on Meta-Wiki.

Thanks for thinking about the future of the movement, --The Brand Project team, 19:39, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

''Note: The survey is conducted via a third-party service, which may subject it to additional terms. For more information on privacy and data-handling, see the survey privacy statement.''

Social Media Integration
It would be awesome if there was a button for sharing quotes on Twitter and perhaps othher social mefia sites. Spannerjam (talk) 05:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Requests for adminship/DannyS712
Does anyone else intend to participate in the discussion at Requests for adminship/DannyS712? I would like to close it within the next few days. Cheers! BD2412 T 05:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #3
Read this in another language • Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter



Seven years ago this month, the Editing team offered the visual editor to most Wikipedia editors. Since then, editors have achieved many milestones:


 * More than 50 million edits have been made using the visual editor on desktop.
 * More than 2 million new articles have been created in the visual editor. More than 600,000 of these new articles were created during 2019.
 * The visual editor is increasingly popular . The proportion of all edits made using the visual editor has increased every year since its introduction.
 * In 2019, 35% of the edits by newcomers (logged-in editors with ≤99 edits) used the visual editor. This percentage has increased every year.
 * Almost 5 million edits on the mobile site have been made with the visual editor. Most of these edits have been made since the Editing team started improving the mobile visual editor in 2018.
 * On 17 November 2019, the first edit from outer space was made in the mobile visual editor. 🚀 👩‍🚀
 * Editors have made more than 7 million edits in the 2017 wikitext editor, including starting 600,000 new articles in it. The 2017 wikitext editor is VisualEditor's built-in wikitext mode.  You can enable it in your preferences.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

12:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Announcing a new wiki project! Welcome, Abstract Wikipedia
Hi all,

It is my honor to introduce Abstract Wikipedia, a new project that has been unanimously approved by the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. Abstract Wikipedia proposes a new way to generate baseline encyclopedic content in a multilingual fashion, allowing more contributors and more readers to share more knowledge in more languages. It is an approach that aims to make cross-lingual cooperation easier on our projects, increase the sustainability of our movement through expanding access to participation, improve the user experience for readers of all languages, and innovate in free knowledge by connecting some of the strengths of our movement to create something new.

This is our first new project in over seven years. Abstract Wikipedia was submitted as a project proposal by Denny Vrandečić in May 2020 after years of preparation and research, leading to a detailed plan and lively discussions in the Wikimedia communities. We know that the energy and the creativity of the community often runs up against language barriers, and information that is available in one language may not make it to other language Wikipedias. Abstract Wikipedia intends to look and feel like a Wikipedia, but build on the powerful, language-independent conceptual models of Wikidata, with the goal of letting volunteers create and maintain Wikipedia articles across our polyglot Wikimedia world.

The project will allow volunteers to assemble the fundamentals of an article using words and entities from Wikidata. Because Wikidata uses conceptual models that are meant to be universal across languages, it should be possible to use and extend these building blocks of knowledge to create models for articles that also have universal value. Using code, volunteers will be able to translate these abstract “articles” into their own languages. If successful, this could eventually allow everyone to read about any topic in Wikidata in their own language.

As you can imagine, this work will require a lot of software development, and a lot of cooperation among Wikimedians. In order to make this effort possible, Denny will join the Foundation as a staff member in July and lead this initiative. You may know Denny as the creator of Wikidata, a long-time community member, a former staff member at Wikimedia Deutschland, and a former Trustee at the Wikimedia Foundation. We are very excited that Denny will bring his skills and expertise to work on this project alongside the Foundation’s product, technology, and community liaison teams.

It is important to acknowledge that this is an experimental project, and that every Wikipedia community has different needs. This project may offer some communities great advantages. Other communities may engage less. Every language Wikipedia community will be free to choose and moderate whether or how they would use content from this project.

We are excited that this new wiki-project has the possibility to advance knowledge equity through increased access to knowledge. It also invites us to consider and engage with critical questions about how and by whom knowledge is constructed. We look forward to working in cooperation with the communities to think through these important questions.

There is much to do as we begin designing a plan for Abstract Wikipedia in close collaboration with our communities. I encourage you to get involved by going to the project page and joining the new mailing list. We recognize that Abstract Wikipedia is ambitious, but we also recognize its potential. We invite you all to join us on a new, unexplored path.

Yours,

Katherine Maher (Executive Director, Wikimedia Foundation)

Sent by m:User:Elitre (WMF) 20:10, 9 July 2020 (UTC) - m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/July 2020 announcement

Sixteen years, but not yet auto-confirmed
Can I be manually confirmed please? Rich Farmbrough (talk)
 * Special:UserRights/Rich Farmbrough says that you are autoconfirmed... --DannyS712 (talk) 04:34, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
 * How strange, I am indeed. Maybe it was a quirk of single sign on.  Rich Farmbrough (talk)

Patrollers needed for WMF study
The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a study on how patrollers address edits made from IP addresses. As part of this study, we would like to interview any users who frequently review new edits, in order to learn more about what challenges they face and what kinds of information they need in order to work. If you are interested, please contact clo@wikimedia.org. Thank you for your time and assistance! --CLo (WMF) (talk) 19:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Technical Wishes: FileExporter and FileImporter become default features on all Wikis
The FileExporter and FileImporter will become a default features on all wikis until August 7, 2020. They are planned to help you to move files from your local wiki to Wikimedia Commons easier while keeping all original file information (Description, Source, Date, Author, View History) intact. Additionally, the move is documented in the files view history. How does it work?

Step 1: If you are an auto-confirmed user, you will see a link "Move file to Wikimedia Commons" on the local file page.

Step 2: When you click on this link, the FileImporter checks if the file can in fact be moved to Wikimedia Commons. These checks are performed based on the wiki's configuration file which is created and maintained by each local wiki community.

Step 3: If the file is compatible with Wikimedia Commons, you will be taken to an import page, at which you can update or add information regarding the file, such as the description. You can also add the 'Now Commons' template to the file on the local wiki by clicking the corresponding check box in the import form. Admins can delete the file from the local wiki by enabling the corresponding checkbox. By clicking on the 'Import' button at the end of the page, the file is imported to Wikimedia Commons.

If you want to know more about the FileImporter extension or the Technical Wishes Project, follow the links. --For the Technical Wishes Team: Max Klemm (WMDE) 09:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

How to vote on the nominations for Quote of the day
What is the best way to vote on the nominations for Quote of the day? Edit the page, for example, the "Suggestions" section for https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/August_25 ?

Page move
I'm trying to move page John Lewis (civil rights leader) → John Lewis. The desired target page is a redirect to the existing page. There does not appear to be a disambiguation issue. Mitchumch (talk) 22:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:06, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

A block is needed for an IP
Hello everyone, the IP 179.53.0.213 seems to be vandalising articles. I couldn't see any other pages to report vandals, so I ended up creating a topic here. Could an administrator block the user please? Have a nice day.--Evrifaessa (talk) 18:40, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ - in the future, you can report such activity here: Vandalism in progress. Thanks! ~ UDScott (talk) 20:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Sahih Al-Bukhari
I found that all the Sahih Al-Bukhari translations in wikiquote belong to , 1971, published by the, part of the by Saudi Arabia. There are serious balance and POV issues with this and other similar content added by certain user. Rupert Loup 04:44, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Important: maintenance operation on September 1st
Read this message in another language •  m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/Server switch 2020

The Wikimedia Foundation will be testing its secondary data centre. This will make sure that Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis can stay online even after a disaster. To make sure everything is working, the Wikimedia Technology department needs to do a planned test. This test will show if they can reliably switch from one data centre to the other. It requires many teams to prepare for the test and to be available to fix any unexpected problems.

They will switch all traffic to the secondary data centre on Tuesday, September 1st 2020.

Unfortunately, because of some limitations in MediaWiki, all editing must stop while the switch is made. We apologize for this disruption, and we are working to minimize it in the future.

You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of time.


 * You will not be able to edit for up to an hour on Tuesday, September 1st. The test will start at 14:00 UTC (15:00 BST, 16:00 CEST, 10:00 EDT, 19:30 IST, 07:00 PDT, 23:00 JST, and in New Zealand at 02:00 NZST on Wednesday September 2).
 * If you try to edit or save during these times, you will see an error message. We hope that no edits will be lost during these minutes, but we can't guarantee it.  If you see the error message, then please wait until everything is back to normal.  Then you should be able to save your edit.  But, we recommend that you make a copy of your changes first, just in case.

Other effects:


 * Background jobs will be slower and some may be dropped. Red links might not be updated as quickly as normal. If you create an article that is already linked somewhere else, the link will stay red longer than usual. Some long-running scripts will have to be stopped.
 * There will be code freezes for the week of September 1st, 2020. Non-essential code deployments will not happen.

This project may be postponed if necessary. You can read the schedule at wikitech.wikimedia.org. Any changes will be announced in the schedule. There will be more notifications about this. Please share this information with your community. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 13:49, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Question
I'm not really active here but is it appropriate for someone who wrote a book to add pieces of their book to this wiki? For example: here - I get the feeling the book author is adding quotes from her book to articles. Is that appropriate to do? --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 17:58, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If that person meets WQ:Q then I don't see why not. Rupert Loup 19:52, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok.Thank you.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 21:01, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Why haven't articles in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion haven't been deleted yet?
Is this because the administrators haven't checked yet or think there needs to be a discussion for a deletion to take place? I'm asking this because one page I nominated for speedy deletion is an attack page that has no place on Wikiquotes and I'm infuriated it hasn't been deleted after a few days. PrincessPandaWiki (talk) 16:55, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, Wikiquote is short on admins. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:06, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Since you said that WQ is short of Admins, I checked  Administrators where I see WQ currently has 17 Admins. Just wondering how many admins we need to maintain WQ? Anyone? Ottawahitech (talk) 03:43, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't know the answer. All I know is that I see only a few who are active. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:01, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * According to |line|1-year|(page_type)~content*non-content|monthly stats by the wmf we only have a little over 100 active "editors" on WQ. So having 17 admins, even if some of are inactive, seems to be enough. Opinions? Ottawahitech (talk) 17:32, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I've cleaned out the backlog. Frankly, although I usually take care of such pages as I encounter them, I don't always check the list on a regular basis - and I had missed that there was a backlog building up. As to the number of admins, although we officially have 17, many are not active (either completely inactive or are infrequently active). We actually have closer to a third of that number that regularly work on the project. For myself, all I can say is that I do what I can and I work on some aspect of the project nearly everyday, but there remains a lot to be done here and "real life" also has a way of inserting itself. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:41, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * @UDScott, You actually have a "real life" ? As one of the many who have met you while contributing content on WQ, I am in awe at how you manage to provide so much help to the community of contributors. And now I also find out you actually do a lot more than that. Is there anything other members of the community, who have no special tools, do to help you carry out your tasks? Ottawahitech (talk) 20:15, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have literally never checked that category in my life. I suppose I never even thought about it. I'll remind myself to check it once in a blue moon. BD2412 T 05:03, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This admin, who appears to have become recently inactive and who I understand is one of the more technically capable admins at WQ, deleted a page I added to WQ some time ago. When I was checking  the Category:Deletion requests it seemed like this admin was doing most of the deletions at WQ, possibly because they felt obliged to?
 * As an inclusionist, I personally welcome an wiki that is less obsessed with deleting pages added by good-faith editors, but even I recognize that some pages must be deleted. So I wonder if one of the less active admins at WQ can be persuaded to take this task on? I recognize that it is not an easy job to take on because to do it well one must be able to explain to irate users why a page they created must be deleted. Hopefully someone in the existing group of 17 admins has the right temperament for this job. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 16:55, 16 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Update: we may be losing 3 of the 17 WQ admins according to: Village_pump. Ottawahitech (talk) 19:19, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Ottawahitech (talk) 19:22, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Can I make comments here, or is this only for archived discussion? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:54, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Draft page for teams
Hi everyone! I'm a newbie here on Wikiquote (but worked on many articles in the German Wikipedia project already).

Is it possible to create a draft page here for a new article that stays for a few days (or weeks)? I'm currently working on an article in collaboration with other authors and it's getting difficult to exchange the latest updates. We are still in the research phase and don't want to publish the (very) incomplete list of quotes yet, so it would be smart to have something like a draft page that doesn't get deleted immediately. (The quotes we have so far, are all properly sourced.)

Thank you very much in advance. --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 17:47, 7 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Problem solved by creating a user sandbox. --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 09:19, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

quote division
I noticed a few articles I watch out for have all the quotes organised as if they no longer have the hr width 50% script, but its still there at the edit screen. What's the new script to account for this? --Eaglestorm (talk) 06:11, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in the conversation
We are excited to share a draft of the Universal Code of Conduct, which the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees called for earlier this year, for your review and feedback. The discussion will be open until October 6, 2020.

The UCoC Drafting Committee wants to learn which parts of the draft would present challenges for you or your work. What is missing from this draft? What do you like, and what could be improved?

Please join the conversation and share this invitation with others who may be interested to join, too.

To reduce language barriers during the process, you are welcomed to translate this message and the Universal Code of Conduct/Draft review. You and your community may choose to provide your opinions/feedback using your local languages.

To learn more about the UCoC project, see the Universal Code of Conduct page, and the FAQ, on Meta.

Thanks in advance for your attention and contributions, The Trust and Safety team at Wikimedia Foundation, 17:55, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Translations from non-official sources
Hi everyone!

I'm currently working on a draft page for Japanese figure skater Yuzuru Hanyu in collaboration with some fans, who are experienced amateur translators (native Japanese and English).

The main issue is that most of Hanyu's quotes are originally in Japanese and very few of them have been translated by official (and reliable) English sources so far. So we're forced to use non-official translations (like sourced fan translations) or translate them ourselves. The original Japanese quotes are all included and properly sourced. The translations get reviewed and discussed by four people from our team.

How does Wikiquote handle such cases? I created a header template to inform the readers about non-official translations on the page and ask to replace them by official ones as soon as they are available. (It might very well be that Hanyu's autobiographies and quotation books get published in English in the near future, since he's a famous athlete with huge international following).

Is that a smart solution? Thank you very much in advance! --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 16:18, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Your solution seems elegant enough. I've modified the template to change "official" to "verifiable." Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 16:04, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for adjusting the template! I'm glad that the solution is fine. --3,1415-Komplex (talk) 07:51, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Sourced, attributed, unsourced, and misattributed.
I'm trying to align Sourced and Unsourced sections, Sourcing, Quotability, and Guide_to_layout. Please comment on whether this is the correct Wikiquote classification and treatment of quotes: (1) sourced to author's work (appears without qualification), (2) sourced to reputable secondary publication but not to author's work (appears as "attributed" in article), (3) generally attributed but not sourced to author's work or reputable secondary publication (appears as "unsourced" on discussion page), and (4) generally attributed but sourced to another author (appears as "misattributed" in non-author's article). Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:08, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Formatting repairs...
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag

Anyone want do to do the tiresome, task of making sure all the bold and italic tags match up properly? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:01, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds like the work for a bot. Bots Rupert Loup 09:31, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki of functions naming contest
.

. Please help pick a name for the new Wikimedia wiki project. This project will be a wiki where the community can work together on a library of functions. The community can create new functions, read about them, discuss them, and share them. Some of these functions will be used to help create language-independent Wikipedia articles that can be displayed in any language, as part of the Abstract Wikipedia project. But functions will also be usable in many other situations.

There will be two rounds of voting, each followed by legal review of candidates, with voting beginning on 29 September and 27 October. Our goal is to have a final project name selected on 8 December. If you would like to participate, then please learn more and vote now at meta-wiki. --Quiddity (WMF) 21:13, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

SheSaid
Hello everyone. I would like to organise an effort to add more women entries on wikiquote, and add more quotes from notable women on wikiquote. The campaign will be calle SheSaid :) To be run before the end of the year.

I am currently starting a draft on meta Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid

Is there anyone interested who wants to join the effort ? Comments ? Criticisms ?

Anthere (talk)
 * Excellent idea. I don't have the bandwidth to drive this but ping me if you figure out where I can fit in. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Awesome ! Koavf, I know you are super active on wikipedia as well. You can probably help relay the message amongst community members in the English sphere. Please drop your name on the interested people list on meta. That would help when we start ! Anthere (talk)


 * YES! I currently have a potential entry that has been sitting in my userspace for some time: User:Ottawahitech/Kim Campbell. Problem is not enough hours in 24 :-) Ottawahitech (talk) 16:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I just added my first #shesaid edit to a new article that can use some love. Ottawahitech (talk) 17:23, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I showed the age a bit of love, expanding the intro, formatting, and choosing a more specific stub tag. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:21, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Much appreciated. Ottawahitech (talk) 18:19, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Now linked with wikidata, if you don’t mind. Cheers, --Omotecho (talk) 22:48, 24 October 2020 (UTC)


 * trivia: A google search on the term wikiquote+shesaid turns up Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid as the fifth item on the list Ottawahitech (talk)

Eh. I improved the Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid entry on meta. Can you please check it out and modify/add if you think it best ? Any super important page that should be linked there to help newcomers ? Also, it came to my mind that it might be a good idea to host a webinar or two of Wikiquote discover tour. I am willing to host those in French and English on my zoom account if that can help. I got this request from a few people who I already talked to, and we never contributed to Wikiquote. They are willing to promote it to their communities but do not really know what to start with. Would not it be a good idea to take an hour to simply introduce people to Wikiquote ? Anyone willing to host such a session in the coming 2 months ? Anthere (talk) 11:05, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , hi, I came across #SheSaid at Creative Commons webinar, and jumped in to translate your meta page into ja. Would there be any chance to attract more postcards with Asian figures, perhaps? I see WLW has another drive on Asian women, and why not postcards !


 * Eh Omotecho. Sorry, I fell into a black hole during and after the CC Summit :) I am getting back into activity !!!
 * Asian figures... yeah, why not ? Would you be able to come up with one or two examples of notable Japanese women with a good quote from each ? One with an entry on wikiquote and and one without so that we can do at least two postcards ? More would be better of course ! Would be great. We can do that but need your help... because no japanese speaking :) Anthere (talk)


 * The second thing might not fit into the context here, that instead of adding Tags, I went straight to translate it, which is, er, instead, better option is to add trans tag to smaller text blocks: I can tell more people would feel easier to add their language pages if trans tags are employed, and when you update en page, other language will be marked for additional translation. Do you happen to know anybody with tagging save? Cheers, --Omotecho (talk) 17:39, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I hate the tag system. I got desperate using it several times. So really can not help here sorry Anthere (talk)
 * I fear it does not work right now because it is a subpage... not sure... Anthere (talk)

Are there categories about women specifically on Wikiquote ? I could not really find an equivalent to https://fr.wikiquote.org/wiki/Catégorie:Personnalité_féminine_par_nationalité (female person by country). Does that exist or was it decided it should not exist ? Anthere (talk) 02:55, 3 November 2020 (UTC)


 * enwikiquote has this category: Category: Women which currently houses 6 subcategories and 77 pages. BTW I see that the Italian WQ has added 100 new women articles since #shesaid started. That is impressive!


 * see:https://it.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:SheSaid#Nuove Ottawahitech (talk) 23:14, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
 * And..... look ! I started that page https://fr.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:SheSaid. We also have a decent number of entries, though not as good as the italiens :)
 * Then I got Covid and just spent 11 days in bed. Still very tired... Anthere (talk) 20:06, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Call for feedback about Wikimedia Foundation Bylaws changes and Board candidate rubric
. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. .

Today the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees starts two calls for feedback. One is about changes to the Bylaws mainly to increase the Board size from 10 to 16 members. The other one is about a trustee candidate rubric to introduce new, more effective ways to evaluate new Board candidates. The Board welcomes your comments through 26 October. For more details, check the full announcement.

Qgil-WMF (talk) 17:10, 7 October 2020 (UTC)


 * , It is nice to know that the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees wanted feedback from the community. However I was expecting a followup post from you, or some other WMF employee, telling us what the new process is for evaluating new Board candidates? Thanks in advance, 15:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikiquote RfC at Meta
Requests for comment/Massive use of fringe sources and quote mining in articles on Islam in Wikiquote. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I have just checked to see the status of this RFC and I see someone asking if wikiquote has been notified. Have we been notified? I assume this thread is official notification? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 20:24, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Wow this RFC is still open? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep, this RFC is still open even though it is pretty dead. I checked the category it has been place in and found another interesting open-rfc: Requests for comment/How to improve RfC Process. Enjoy, 15:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

About categories
I have seen here that instead of subcategory we are using the main category. For example: Romantic drama films instead of American romantic drama films but I have also seen subcategories in some articles like Category:2010s American crime drama TV shows, Category:2010s American drama TV shows, Category:American drama TV shows, Category:Indian animated films. IP users are constantly creating more subcategories. This is causing confusion due to the use of use of different categories in different articles. Can anyone please explain and resolve this issue.--Saroj Uprety (talk) 17:46, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Another problem is the difference in Category:Actresses from the United States and Category:Spanish actresses. There are more categories with such differences.--Saroj Uprety (talk) 18:09, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The truth is that we should be using the more specific subcategories (and the format of Actresses from Spain instead of Spanish actresses). The simple answer to why we do not have consistency is just that these updates or category creation has not happened yet. While we have some very active users, we just don't have enough to get to such tasks as these. Many of our regulars jump around the site, fixing things slowly or adding new pages. But we rarely have someone who focuses on a specific area long enough to fully address it. The bottom line is that we are still an evolving project that has just not gotten around to addressing this (and many other) issue. If you are so inclined, feel free to work on this as you are able. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:15, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's annoying to correct the categories when I can't remember was it Novelists from England or English novelists, for example.--Vilho-Veli (talk) 18:45, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Not to mention when the 'UK' or 'British' enters the discussion. Yes, I agree that there is much regarding categories that may confuse many. The only thing I can say is that there remains a pile of work on this site and we as a community have yet to get to some of these topics across the board. Often they are resolved in pockets, but not consistently across the project. We just have to keep chipping away at it - and realize that many users do not have any interest in fixing this, instead preferring to spend their time on content. I try to work on categories every so often, but my attention is more often driven to other work items. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:52, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * (For films and TV shows)
 * Okay, I'll help with the category work but we should discuss which subcategories should be used. Creating more categories for a lesser number of articles is not a good thing in my view.
 * (For people)
 * In these categories (Category:Actors by country, Category:Actresses by country, Category:Politicians by country), differences can be seen. What if we make all the categories in the same format. Saroj Uprety (talk) 00:54, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Any help you can offer is much appreciated. I would agree that we should be smart about how many subcategories are added - I generally do not add them unless there is a good amount of pages that will qualify for them. I do not see the need when only a handful of pages will be in them. I would also agree that having a consistent schema for the people categories (especially those you mention) is a good idea. Thanks! ~ UDScott (talk) 12:01, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * @UDScott I have made some edits. If they seem fine then I will proceed with other categories. Saroj Uprety (talk) 13:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks good! Thanks. ~ UDScott (talk) 14:36, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

American judges or Judges from the usa? etc
This a discussion that should not be decided so lightly because it will have ramifications for the integrity of wikiquote in the future. Is there no better place to discuss categories than at village pump? Is there no place to officially document the results of the discussion such as Help:Category. Just my $.02 Ottawahitech (talk) 18:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * As an example of the complexity of this issue, take Boris Johnson the prime minister of the UK. He is definitely considered a British politician, but since he was born in New York, he was also an American. However, I don't think anyone would describe him as an American politician? Ottawahitech (talk) 15:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I just came across another alternative introduced by a new editor at WQ: Judges of the United States. Opinions? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 04:55, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Scientists from Greece or Greek scientists?
The Category:Scientists from Greece has the following 2 subcategories:
 * Category:Greek historians‎ (16 P)
 * Category:Greek logicians‎ (4 P)

A Greek Historian is not necessarily Greek (?). He/she is a historian that studies Greek history. A historian or a scientist from Greece is someone who was either born in Greece or spent many years(how many?) there, but does not necessarily study Greek history exclusively.

Am I making sense? Does anyone have anything to add to this topic? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 02:02, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Important: maintenance operation on October 27
Read this message in another language •

The Wikimedia Foundation tests the switch between its first and secondary data centers. This will make sure that Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia wikis can stay online even after a disaster. To make sure everything is working, the Wikimedia Technology department needs to do a planned test. This test will show if they can reliably switch from one data centre to the other. It requires many teams to prepare for the test and to be available to fix any unexpected problems.

They will switch all traffic back to the primary data center on Tuesday, October 27 2020.

Unfortunately, because of some limitations in MediaWiki, all editing must stop while the switch is made. We apologize for this disruption, and we are working to minimize it in the future.

You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of time.


 * You will not be able to edit for up to an hour on Tuesday, October 27. The test will start at 14:00 UTC (14:00 WET, 15:00 CET, 10:00 EDT, 19:30 IST, 07:00 PDT, 23:00 JST, and in New Zealand at 03:00 NZDT on Wednesday October 28).
 * If you try to edit or save during these times, you will see an error message. We hope that no edits will be lost during these minutes, but we can't guarantee it.  If you see the error message, then please wait until everything is back to normal.  Then you should be able to save your edit.  But, we recommend that you make a copy of your changes first, just in case.

Other effects:


 * Background jobs will be slower and some may be dropped. Red links might not be updated as quickly as normal. If you create an article that is already linked somewhere else, the link will stay red longer than usual. Some long-running scripts will have to be stopped.
 * There will be code freezes for the week of October 26, 2020. Non-essential code deployments will not happen.

This project may be postponed if necessary. You can read the schedule at wikitech.wikimedia.org. Any changes will be announced in the schedule. There will be more notifications about this. A banner will be displayed on all wikis 30 minutes before this operation happens. Please share this information with your community. -- Trizek (WMF) (talk)  17:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Question about Wikiquote as place for sources
Hello. I don't really use Wikiquote but I think I could use it for my Wikipedia articles but I don't know if I can use it this way. I'm working on articles on mythology, such as gods, and there are many historiographic and folklore sources that describe them, but there are too many of them to put them all on Wikipedia. The question is, can I list all historical sources (specific quotes about a god or an object) together with scholars opinions + gods/objects in culture? Sławobóg (talk) 17:19, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm having a hard time visualizing this. So on Zeus, there would be a quotation and then there would be subsequent quotations in response or otherwise giving context to the initial quotation? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

How to translate quotations?
How does one include quotes made in another language? Who is authorized to do the translation. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 17:19, 29 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Anyone can do the translation, but the original text should be there for checking, I think. There aren't many translations of Finnish proverbs, for example, so I've done those myself - dictionary doesn't help 'cause they are in dialects.--Vilho-Veli (talk) 19:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Sourced quotes/unsourced.
Hi wikiquote I need some help.

Where can I start editing here?

I like topics of just about anything.

Any help would be great.

Also, I would like to create a few new pages if I could, but don't know what quotes and where I can source them. Thanks.

FcoonerBCA (talk) 01:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but probably the best place to start for someone new to the project is here. It is important to keep in mind that if a valid and verifiable source is not provided for a quote, it is likely to be removed and/or the page deleted. This means that you must provide a citation for the quote from either the original source or where it is quoted in a secondary source. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:42, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Welcome to wiki-quote, we sure could use more help here.
 * Some people like to read exhaustive documentation before contributing any content to a wiki. Others, like me, who has the attention span of a flea, prefer to dive right in and learn on the job. There are always typos to correct, add references when they are missing, add wiki-links when they exist, stub articles to expand, and talkpage discussions to observe and learn from experienced Quoatians.
 * The above are just my personal views. Other's miles may vary? Ottawahitech (talk) 02:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC)


 * For those here who are interested in how justice is meted in the wmf-wiki-world I would like to share with readers an exchange between me and one of the Stewards currently standing for reconfirmation during the 2021-Steward-elections. I asked this Steward why User:FcoonerBCA who is the OP (original poster) of this thread was globally locked on all wmf-sites.


 * Here is the link for those interested: Stewards/Confirm/2021/MarcoAurelio Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 02:32, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Wiki of functions naming contest - Round 2
. Reminder: Please help to choose the name for the new Wikimedia wiki project - the library of functions. The finalist vote starts today. The finalists for the name are: Wikicode, Wikicodex, Wikifunctions, Wikifusion, Wikilambda, Wikimedia Functions. If you would like to participate, then please learn more and vote now at Meta-wiki. --Quiddity (WMF) 22:10, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Export Quotes from Goodreads?
Has anyone investigated whether it would be possible to export Goodreads quote database to here?

Either via their API or manually? --Phytographer (talk) 11:04, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the direct answer to your questions are yes and no. My assumption is that someone who is savvy could more-or-less easily build a bot to do this if they have an API to export. Are you considering this? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:40, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Not savvy enough :( --Phytographer (talk) 02:31, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure but were you, what would your plan be? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:43, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Ideally a program that could talk to both APIs to scrape quotes from Goodreads and upload them here. Failing that, two separate bots to do each.--Phytographer (talk) 00:25, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Donald trump pageviews observations
I hope this type of posting is permitted here?

I was looking up pageviews for Donald Trump on wikiquote and to my surprise his page had a lot more views in months in 2018 and 2019 than he did just prior to the 2020 election. I also checked pageviews on the English Wikipedia for Donald Trump and over there the highest pageviews month was March 2016 followed by November2016,views in 2017-2020 look minuscule in comparison.

Are others also surprised? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 01:05, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Surprised but not shocked. It is odd. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:39, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for posting @Koavf. it is hard to gauge if a posting is of interest to the audience here, since many postings do not get a response. So at the risk of boring more people |Joe_Biden|Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez here is another statistic that I find interesting. Ottawahitech (talk) 21:34, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ...and another that shows all the see-also articles at the bottom of DTː
 * https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikiquote.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Donald_Trump|Donald_Trump_on_social_media|Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump|Trumpism|2020_United_States_presidential_election|Joe_Biden|Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections Ottawahitech (sorry can't sign, my keyboard is broken)

Community consensus needed for big change in 2021: please read
Per Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid, I am proposing that
 * 1) At least 183 of our quotes on the main page in 2021 be from females
 * 2) We feature a link to Wiki Loves Women/SheSaid with all girls' and women's quotations

Please show your support or opposition below, along with any other commentary.

SheSaid group:

I'm proposing leaving this discussion open until December 15 and closing it with a little over two weeks to start the new year and arrange female-derived quotations. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:46, 11 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm not terribly keen on artificial quotas. Any editor here can focus on creating pages for female subjects, or adding to those pages, and can propose worthwhile quotes from those subjects for inclusion on the main page. BD2412 T 05:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Aren't all quotas artificial? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:23, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This is a serious challenge you are suggesting Koavf. 50% representation over the 2021 year. Tough challenge I guess, but eh... I am always in for a challenge. Do you seriously think it achievable ? I am never too excited by quotas myself, but my feminist friends tell me that it actually helps to get the engine started. So why not.... In any cases, I am in a big support for the creation of a list of female-derived quotations from which we could more easily dig best quotes. I am also interested in a list of selected good entries about women themselves. Anthere (talk)

On a related note, I just came across an article about a famous woman that has been tagged for deletion at wikiquote: Ann Landers. I am sure quotes can be found for this syndicated column writer who responded to readers questions for over 50 years (according to Wikipedia). How can we save this important article? Anyone? Ottawahitech (talk) 03:19, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

On another related note... Camelia propose to host a webinar in the next few days, to explain Wikiquote to anyone interested. Would be lovely to have other experimented members of wikiquote be there. If interested, we are asking you what would be your favorite timeslot on doodle. https://doodle.com/poll/p48ypwnffszhu8e6 Cheers. Anthere (talk) 10:38, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Should we say female when we mean woman?
I know many simply dismiss this as political correctness. However, I feel very strongly about this issue. I believe that if we honestly want to create an inclusionary atmosphere in wikiquote that values women and their contributions, we should stop caliing women females

My $.02 what is yours (even if it is worth more than mine please). Ottawahitech (talk) 16:15, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm confused by the thinking here: when I use "female" it's in a way to be inclusive of girls and women. If there are contexts where I am talking about female persons who are adults (i.e. only women, not girls), then I would likely use "women". Is there a better way to be inclusive of female persons who aren't women? What would that word be? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:34, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * @Koavf, thanks for responding. Yes, I agree this is a problem. How about using the term women/girls instead of using fem*** to describe this group? If we do not get into the habit of doing so, how will we cagtegorize people such as Ben Barres or Murray Hall who were born female but I doubt many would call them women? Thanks in advance to anyone willing to contribute to this thread, Ottawahitech (talk) 22:29, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * As I wrote earlier at Talk:Girls: "The nounification of the adjectives male and female, particularly with reference to people, strikes me as a reifying influence. (Consider how some contemporary news reportage refers to ordinary or upstanding people as men and women (rarely ladies and gentlemen anymore) but refers to criminal suspects and perpetrators as males and females — overtly dehumanizing the 'undesirables' by employing terms that apply as well to brute animals.)" Note also that Wiktionary observes that some find it dehumanizing to refer to women as "females", especially in non-technical contexts. ~ Ningauble (talk) 19:39, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

webinar
The webinar to learn about Wikiquote will be hosted this SUNDAY 15th Nov at 6pm CET. Links to attend We will be doing live using StreamYard! I look forward understanding more about Wikiquote. I hope some of you will be here ;)
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeHTpFVYdOw&ab_channel=WikipediaWeekly
 * https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/3414320428615764/

Anthere (talk) 18:07, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Need more eyes and viewpoints at Ann Landers
Need more input at Talk:Ann_Landers. Thanks in advance Ottawahitech (talk) 18:41, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Call for insights on ways to better communicate the work of the movement
. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. . A translatable version of this message is available on Meta. Call for insights on ways to better communicate the work of the movement The Movement Strategy recommendations published this year made clear the importance of establishing stronger communications within our movement. To this end, the Foundation wants to gather insights from communities on ways we all might more consistently communicate about our collective work, and better highlight community contributions from across the movement. Over the coming months, we will be running focus groups and online discussions to collect these insights. Visit the page on Meta-Wiki to sign up for a focus group or participate in the discussion. ELappen (WMF) (talk) 18:56, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey 2021 open
The 2021 Community Wishlist Survey is now open! This survey is the process where communities decide what the Community Tech team should work on over the next year. We encourage everyone to submit proposals until the deadline on , or comment on other proposals to help make them better. The communities will vote on the proposals between and.

The Community Tech team is focused on tools for experienced Wikimedia editors. You can write proposals in any language, and we will translate them for you. Thank you, and we look forward to seeing your proposals!

SGrabarczuk (WMF) 05:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)


 * It seems that this year's wishlist has a category for Wikidata,  Wikisource, and Wiktionary projects proposals, but not for Wikiquote. Just curious why that is? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 16:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The answer is pretty simple: because we haven't received a sufficient number of submissions. Currently, if there's an idea for Wikiquote, it goes into Miscellaneous. There has been no need to increase the number of categories. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying on Wikiquote. Since there are boxes for Wikidata,  Wikisource, and Wiktionary projects, how about a box for other small projects on the Community Wishlist Survey 2021 page? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 17:04, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting proposal. As I wrote, previously and this year, the total number of wishes for small projects was close to 0, that is why no dedicated category was created. In the next year though, depending on the number of wishes, there may be changes to the categories. (Plus, apologies for such a late reply. So much is to be coordinated!) SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:28, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Do we have template editors?
Can we import w:wp:templates from the English Wikipedia? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 21:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC) Do we have template editors on wikiquote?
 * Please see: Template talk:Theme-stub? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I am very reluctant to do any importing: it results in a lot of dependencies and headaches that almost never make it worthwhile. I don't understand what the request is, tho: What am I to be importing from en.wp? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:22, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Importing templates from enwiki
Do we have anyone who can import template from enwiki. I believe w:en:Template:Category TOC would be very useful for large categories that take up several pages? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:25, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I recommend against that because 1.) I don't think the template is useful, 2.) if anything, this should be a change to the MediaWiki software, and 3.) the following are the dependencies of the template (not to mention the dependencies of those dependencies):


 * MediaWiki:Toc
 * Template:=
 * Template:Category TOC
 * Template:Category TOC tracking categories
 * Template:Category TOC/doc
 * Template:Category other
 * Template:Collapse bottom
 * Template:Collapse top
 * Template:Documentation
 * Template:Documentation subpage
 * Template:High-use
 * Template:Main other
 * Template:No redirect
 * Template:Ombox
 * Template:Purge page
 * Template:Sandbox other
 * Template:Shortcut
 * Template:Shortcut/styles.css
 * Template:TOC bottom
 * Template:TOC top
 * Template:Tl
 * Template:Tl2
 * Template:Yesno
 * Module:Arguments
 * Module:Documentation
 * Module:Documentation/config
 * Module:Documentation/styles.css
 * Module:Effective protection expiry
 * Module:Effective protection level
 * Module:File link
 * Module:High-use
 * Module:Message box
 * Module:Message box/configuration
 * Module:No globals
 * Module:Protection banner
 * Module:Protection banner/config
 * Module:Redirect
 * Module:Shortcut
 * Module:Shortcut/config
 * Module:String
 * Module:Transclusion count
 * Module:Transclusion count/data/C
 * Module:Yesno
 * Importing 44 templates and modules, their documentation, and all of the dependent templates and modules for what benefit? Just so someone won't scroll a few pixels? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:29, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Any ideas how to traverse through pages of large parent categories? Currently one must click through "next" several times to find a category that is not at the start of the alphabet? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:37, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I just came across another very useful (in my opinion) template that does not exist on WQ: Template:Annual readership. I believe this template would be beneficial at Talk:Donald Trump. Is the consensus here that we stop importing all templates from enwiki, or was the objection above only to Template:Category TOC? Ottawahitech (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's any consensus against importing but I personally will not do it for anything complex and anyone who takes the responsibility should ensure that all the relevant sub-modules, sub-templates, and documentation are imported as well and are properly categorized. If someone else is willing to do all that, then God bless him. It's just not worth the effort. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:57, 29 November 2020 (UTC)


 * See Template:CategoryTOC (as used at Category:Author stubs for example). It has been around for years and works fine. If you really want a more complicated template I offer this advice: If you do not know how to maintain it then leave it alone. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:41, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion of Wikiquote at Wikipedia
A discussion ongoing at the Wikipedia village pump proposes various diminishments of the role of Wikiquote on that project, if anyone is interested. It largely originates from the existence of a questionable page here, OpIndia, containing quotes from the subject media outlet that are negative towards Wikipedia. I question whether we need such a page. Cheers! BD2412 T 01:18, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * As you probably know by now, @BD2412, I am interested, and so are other so-far-silent content-building wikiquotiens (is this the right term?) who are working tirelessly to improve WQ content. The question I have is: how can we as a community voice concern without becoming so involved in discussions and  as a result have no time left to improve content here? Just my $.02. Ottawahitech (talk) 17:45, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I think an argument can be made that we have structural and relational issues which, if resolved satisfactorily, would lead to better functioning of this project. It would be helpful to have more Wikipedians coming over here and becoming Wikiquotians and doing some of that content work here, and there is apparently some distaste for Wikiquote among Wikipedians which may impede this flow. BD2412 T 21:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Just curious: when you say more Wikipedians what kind of enwiki "editors" do you have in mind? One thing the community will have to decide is whether we only want admin-class "editors" or are we also interested in trash-class individuals? Ottawahitech (talk) 19:07, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure we can find a middle ground between "admin-class" and "trash". BD2412 T 18:14, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

OpIndia and other articles
What is the WQ policy relating to articles created by sockpuppets and containing clearly one-sided inflammatory quotes from sources widely considered to be, for want of a better word, nutcases? 1998 Coimbatore bombings is an example. - Sitush (talk) 07:16, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

FWIW, the OpIndia article referred to by above is another. - Sitush (talk) 07:23, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * By my count, the editor in question has created 346 pages here, which I have listed at Administrators' noticeboard/November 2020 sockpuppet investigation. BD2412 T 08:00, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * So they are not routinely deleted. Thanks. People to watch out for in those articles include Elst, Frawley and Goel - all widely considered to be right-wing Hindu nationalist extremists. - 146.200.49.138 08:13, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, and Arun Shourie in his pre-21st century guise is another (he has since disavow many of his earlier views). - 146.200.49.138 08:18, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Above ip was me. See also this sock discussion. - Sitush (talk) 08:36, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Rajiv Malhotra is another Hindu extremist that they are using. - Sitush (talk) 09:06, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * And the Nupur J. Sharma article is the editor of the aforementioned OpIndia who in many countries would face legal action for incitement of religious hatred. - Sitush (talk) 09:19, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * NB: I am not outright saying none of these people should be referred to on WQ, just that there is a fairly evident massive POV thing going on and it seems to be flying under the radar. - Sitush (talk) 09:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The above user in question is . Many users have reported him in the past, including me as you can see here and here. Even if the user made edits in many Wiki projects, he never made a single edit on English Wikipedia. Besides that, a user named Vilho Veli has a long career of adding Wikiquote links of the pages created by this user to Wikipedia . I think this means the user (or IP) may be either blocked in english Wikipedia nor doing a tag team works with Vilho Veli. If we have a policy here that allows us to delete the pages created by such users it would have been great.- Akhiljaxxn (talk) 10:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Vilho-Veli account has been globally locked but, yes, they are already back under another name. - Sitush (talk) 12:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Some additional info here. This will affect more than the 346 articles noted above. I am mystified as to how they have got away with so much here - it is blatant. - Sitush (talk) 12:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It is exhausting and confusing keeping up with all of the back and forth over these Hindutva entries and there is a small moderation team here. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:41, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I realise that it is our of control. All the more reason to stop the driving of traffic here from other projects. These issues, even some of these specific accounts, have been reported previously. - Sitush (talk) 12:48, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That seems excessive: some areas of this quotation repository are bad, not all of them. And more eyes makes bugs shallow, so having more WMF editors here would be helpful. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Not going to happen. I have spoken to lots of en-WP people over the years about WQ and almost all think it is pointless because the scope and organisation is too vague. And when people are ignored when they file valid concerns about pov etc, it just reinforces the feeling of contempt. - Sitush (talk) 12:55, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I am disappointed that your go-to solution isn't "how can we fix this and make it better." But, instead, is "let's walk away from this." Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:56, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I am disappointed that you personalise this. It is a systemic issue of long standing and I am far from the first to raise it yet nothing seems to change. - Sitush (talk) 17:39, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * What policy changes would you suggest? BD2412 T 00:08, 1 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for visiting wikiquote. I hope you came here to help us improve.
 * Do wikiquotiens believe that articles created by sockpuppets and containing clearly one-sided inflammatory quotes from sources widely considered to be, for want of a better word, nutcases should exist here?''
 * I can't speak for all of the great contributors here, but here are my own newbie views:


 * 1) Why can't sockpuppets create an article, as long as they create a decent one, or one that can become decent with help of the community?
 * 2) Who decides who the nutcases are?
 * 3) Who decides whether a quote is  inflammatory?
 * 4) If contributors feel that an article is one-sided, is there a reason that  prevents them from adding quotes to counter-blance?
 * I invite you and others who want to see wikiquote improve to the talkpage of OpIndia to decide what to do about that specific article. Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

BD2412, it is difficult to get to grips with what policies even exist, so random does it all seem. Would the Twitter quote at Amarinder Singh accord with them? If so, why? And if not, why? - Sitush (talk) 05:07, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Re the Twitter quote at Amarinder Singh, I would think not, unless it was shown to actually have been quoted in another source. I do think that we should have a strict rule against reporting tweets that were not otherwise quoted or published, since there is no filter for either quality or significance. BD2412 T 05:39, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Your thoughts coincide with my instincts, although the way you phrase them suggests they are not actually current policy even though it seems blindingly obvious they should be. Now extend that slightly: is it acceptable to include here anything that has not been quoted by a third-party independent print media source? Not just tweets (and not retweets or similar counting as "quoted"). - Sitush (talk) 05:52, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Bearing in mind that Quotability is a guideline rather than a policy, I wouldn't go so far as to say that we can't quote anything that has not been quoted by a third party. If an unquestionably highly notable figure like Abraham Lincoln or Albert Einstein wrote a letter or an article that has been authenticated, and an editor here found a particularly well-worded passage there that has never been quoted but was relevant to one of our covered topics, I don't see why we would prohibit that offhand. BD2412 T 06:43, 1 December 2020 (UTC)


 * OK, in that case this project will be irredeemable unless you insist on some priori consensus being formed at a central noticeboard. A contributor's opinion is subjective, arbitrary and not necessarily in accord with the wider world. In other words, you leave the project wide open to exactly the type of extremist POV pushing that has gone on here for years. Anyone can quote anything, including a tweet from an official/verified account such as the one by the aforementioned Amarinder Singh, who is a publicly elected official in the world's largest democracy. - Sitush (talk) 07:04, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You are, of course, welcome to propose policies. I would support a ban on tweets unpublished in reliable sources. BD2412 T 15:36, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I will not be proposing anything. I have no real desire to be involved with this cesspit and was merely trying to be polite in responding to your query. You have stepped round the cause of the problems here, just as other people gave had similar experiences in the past. - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I would advise that calling this project a "cesspit" is inappropriate behavior. BD2412 T 15:58, 1 December 2020 (UTC)


 * BD2412 I would suggest we ban sources that are deprecated by the English Wikipedia community. It would be great if we had a list of such sources as shown on WP:DEPSOURCES. Need a WQ:QLP policy like WP:BLP. Ban of tweets if it is not widely covered by multiple independent reliable sources.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 18:41, 2 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: I have received the following email from User:დამოკიდებულება:

Dear BD2412

I have not joined the discussions as I am too busy.

The whole discussion is full of personal attacks and full of false claims.

It is obvious that I am not related to the locked account of Vilho.

Editor interaction tool proves nothing, Vilho is very active on wikiquote and shows overlap with almost any user on wikiquote.

Claiming such an absurd thing, as they do, is disingenuous.

I have also never abused sockpuppetry. I never had two illegitimate accounts at the same time. See WP:VALIDALT and WP:FRESHSTART.

I have just one question. Is an extremely spurious claim, based on misleading claims about edit interaction tool, when the other user is basically a wiki gnome who edits all articles that were recently edited at wikiquote by any other user, not a form of harassement? This locked user was on wikiquote a wikignome who edited all articles that were edited by any other users on wikiquote. As I said, claiming such absurd thing, and forum shopping (canvassing) it, as they do, is disingenuous. Editor interaction tool proves nothing, Vilho is very active on wikiquote and shows overlap with almost any user on wikiquote.

I think it is very, very obvious that I am not that locked user, and anybody who put the type of time and effort in as they did, would have found. This makes it disingenuous.

I believe this kind of spurious claims and personal attacks is a form of harassment and I want to know if there are rules about it, and where to complain.

I kindly ask you to not call me a sockpuppet and kindly ask you to remove the sockpuppet designation.

The whole discussion is full of personal attacks, bullying, and full of false claims. A lot of the discussion is personal attacks, is disingenuous, contains smears and false claims, and lacks civility.

Unfortunately, I think that the list page you made only encourages more bullying and hounding, and gives the impression that they are "right".

The IP that has just commented is a sockpupet of User:Xsaorapa another user known for having extreme biases, and from reading talkpages etc they are also known for abusing NPOV, censoring and defaming any pov that they don't agree with. That IP has been known for hounding me, and his socks at Wikipedia were known for extreme pov pushing and BLP violations.
 * I have responded with a request that they address their concerns on Wikiquote directly, and not by email, as no private information has been implicated. BD2412 T 17:32, 30 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Well, if the IP they are referring to is the 146.200.49.138 further up this thread, they are way out there. I said it was me, logged out accidentally on the android app, and I think most regulars on en-WP would both recognise it as me + vouch that I don't sock. - Sitush (talk) 18:56, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Clarification/update. I had suspected დამოკიდებულება was related to the globally-locked Vilho-Veli/Veli-Turo/Risto_hot_sir/Mino_muka/Roope_poor/Savonhelmi, but looking deeper I found that they are unrelated. დამოკიდებულება used several serial accounts, and Risto_hot_sir used several serial accounts. That raised suspicions, and I found suspicious overlap between them, but the overlap appears to have been coincidental. Alsee (talk) 11:53, 3 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I have started removed some of the personal attacks but a lot more cleanup is needed as the place is littered with extreme personal attacks. I have been the victim of extreme personal attacks on wikiquote (and even by forum shopping/canvassing on other websites than wikiquote), but nothing was done. The bullying, personal attacks and hounding seems designed to turn off neutral users to comment. When they see the massive amount of personal attacks neutral users are turned off and don't comment. Also with discussions which are full of personal attacks, false claims, smears, BLP and other policy violations, bullying, forum shopping, and so on, so that it is not really encouraging the participation of impartial editors, who are driven away by such, and I'm starting to think this is maybe the intention. There is also a massive amount of extreme BLP violations on these talkpages against the BLP policy. These BLP attacks on Hindu  or pro-Hindu scholars, authors or politicians would not be acceptable if they were directed against the Muslim or Jewish equivalents, they would be called islamophobic or anti-semitic, so why are hinduphobic BLP violations on talkpages tolerated?

I don't have the time for a post now and will post about various aspects later, but for now I'm just noting an older post I have complained about bias in articles like these ones:


 * Nissim Mannathukkaren
 * Dipa Sinha
 * Sujatha Fernandes
 * Rajendran Narayanan
 * Mekhala Krishnamurthy
 * Charity Troyer Moore
 * Simone Schaner
 * Armin Rosencranz
 * Amitabh Behar
 * C. P. Surendran
 * Prabhat Patnaik
 * Ram Puniyani
 * Ravi Agrawal
 * Suhas Palshikar
 * Sujatha Fernandes
 * Vivekanand Jha
 * Manu Joseph
 * Devesh Kapur
 * Nandini Sundar
 * Devesh Kapur
 * Kanai Lal Hazra
 * Violence
 * Comedy
 * Mainstream media
 * Brijgopal Harkishan Loya
 * Legitimacy (political) ‎ (← links | edit)
 * False equivalence ‎ (← links | edit)
 * Deification ‎ (← links | edit)
 * Irrationality
 * Modernity
 * Capitalism ‎ (← links | edit)
 * Class conflict ‎
 * Neoliberalism ‎
 * Hegemony ‎
 * Coronavirus recession ‎
 * Precarity ‎
 * Ministry of Home Affairs (India) ‎
 * Migrant worker ‎
 * Minority group ‎
 * Kinship ‎
 * Democracy ‎
 * Hatred ‎
 * Discrimination ‎
 * Social injustice ‎
 * Injustice ‎
 * Rights ‎
 * Public opinion ‎
 * State ‎
 * Elite ‎
 * Principal–agent problem ‎
 * Migrant worker ‎
 * Political narrative ‎
 * Billionaire
 * Morality
 * Praveen Swami
 * Margaret Thatcher ‎
 * Neoconservatism ‎
 * Angela Merkel ‎
 * Union budget of India

There are many many more examples as also noted by many other users over time see here. These focus on some subtopics, but it really concerns many more topics than these. There have been many edit-warring by the users concerned (not by me but by other users) in many of these articles. I think some admins are aware of these quotations relating to many other socio/political disputations and polemics.

The selection are examples of for example anti-Hindu, anti-Indian bias that are on many articles in WQ, and while I believe they are not notable or quotable (many of these persons don't even have a wikipedia page), I am not for their censorship and believe they should stay and not be deleted. There are many, many more that could be added to this list.

There are many many more examples as also noted by many other users over time that many others have noted the bias.

I have also for example said about some of these articles: "IMHO, they (and similar ones) don't meet Quotability, especially in high level articles about a global and theoretical concept like this... But I can accept this, since I am not a deletionist or someone who likes to censor other opinions. I only wish others would also respect properly sourced quotes that pertain to the page's topic and not remove them even if they go against one's own views or for whatever "reason"."

As a typical example, the article Legitimacy (political), which is a global and theoretical concept, consists of a single quote by a non-notable person who has no wikipedia article and the quote is very inflammatory, i.e. very biased against the Indian governement and Indian prime minister. against the eleced Indian governement in the largest democracy in the world. But I have accepted, as I wrote above I am not a deletionist or someone who likes to censor other opinions. Other users too have noted the bias in these and many many other articles of this type.

The top of this page says that Village pump is for General policy discussions and proposals, requests for permissions and major announcements.  So why was this posted here. When some time earlier I posted here something not related to general policy discussions, it was moved to an article talkpage. Even more strange, was the forum shopping and canvassing on other websites than WQ.

Many of these scholars and authors Sitush mentions (and maligns with BLP violations attacks) are for example quite extensively quoted in the book ". A tribute to Hinduism: Thoughts and wisdom spanning continents and time about India and her culture" I mention this book because it is one of the few notable books of selected quotations about Hinduism, and if an author is quoted in such a compendium it carries more weight than what some wikipedian says. And they are certainly more notable than some of the authors on many pages in WQ like Nissim Mannathukkaren and the like which I have noted previously about on WQ.

I don't have the time for a post now and will post about various aspects later, but for now I'm just noting the older post I have complained about bias in articles like these ones. --ო (talk) 09:46, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata descriptions changes to be included more often in Recent Changes and Watchlist
''Translations are available on this page. Feel free to translate it in more languages!''

As you may know, you can include changes coming from Wikidata in your Watchlist and Recent Changes (in your preferences). Until now, this feature didn’t always include changes made on Wikidata descriptions due to the way Wikidata tracks the data used in a given article.

Starting on December 3rd, the Watchlist and Recent Changes will include changes on the descriptions of Wikidata Items that are used in the pages that you watch. This will only include descriptions in the language of your wiki to make sure that you’re only seeing changes that are relevant to your wiki.

This improvement was requested by many users from different projects. We hope that it can help you monitor the changes on Wikidata descriptions that affect your wiki and participate in the effort of improving the data quality on Wikidata for all Wikimedia wikis and beyond.

Note: if you didn’t use the Wikidata watchlist integration feature for a long time, feel free to give it another chance! The feature has been improved since the beginning and the content it displays is more precise and useful than at the beginning of the feature in 2015.

If you encounter any issue or want to provide feedback, feel free to use this Phabricator ticket. Thanks!

Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 14:39, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Looking for a source of a quote
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask a question. But I'll ask anyway.

I am trying to find the origin of a quote attributable to both Shakespeare and Oscar Wilde. Here is the quote: "And he goes through life, his mouth open, and his mind closed". I've see it in dozens of websites -- not Wikiquotes. But I never see a source. I can't seem to find a source. Most of the time, the quote is attributable to Shakespeare. Sometimes to Oscar Wilde. I would like any help in finding where it came from.

Thanks,

Paul


 * The earliest version I can find is from E. M. Forster, in The Nation and Athenæum, Vol. 34 (1923), p. 512, writing on Jane Austen: "I read and reread, the mouth open and the mind closed". BD2412 T 15:48, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you.

Paul