Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Category:Buddy films

Category:Buddy films
Subjective categorization for films open to too much interpretation unless they were marketed as such like the genre of buddy cop movies. This list seemingly excludes any romances and based off the films listed containing large ensemble casts, there is no requirement that it be limited to a pair of characters. This description can be applied to most movies. — CensoredScribe (talk) 04:25, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 05:00, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I note that Buddy films is a well-defined topic on Wikipedia, and a well-populated category there, also. BD2412 T 21:30, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Interesting, Wikipedia says, "The buddy film is a film genre in which two (or on occasion, more than two) people—often both men—are put together.", which is a terrible definition, usually two and usually men does not define any actual parameters, the battalion in Saving Private Ryan can make the film count as a buddy film I guess, seeing as comedy isn't part of the definition, why allow the cops from Lethal Weapon but exclude soldiers? Valerian and Laureline in Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets is about a duo of space soldiers who bicker as much as any two buddy cops, however they are also romantically involved, is a lack of any sexual relationship essential to this genres definition to distinguish it from romance? "The two often contrast in personality, which creates a different dynamic onscreen than a pairing of two people of the opposite gender," I'm calling OR, who said that? "The contrast is sometimes accentuated by an ethnic difference between the two." Again, what critic or company defined the genre as being inherently about race? I thought Bad Boys with Martin Lawrence and Will Smith is considered a buddy film, so none of the definitions parameters hold up. I know buddy cop films typically do meet these 3 requirements, but that's buddy cop films, not films like The Hang Over, those loose rules apply to a specific sub genre of buddy films. Many of our entries in this category differ from Wikipedias categorization, obvious ones like Bill and Ted, and Wayne's World need to be added, as should Disney's Aladdin, Toy Story, and Cars because wikipedia lists them. What I find odd is that Wikipedia does not list other Disney classics like Sleeping Beauty which features three color coordinated fairies who speak more than any other character except the villain, or across gender non romantic partnership like Peter Pan and Tinkerbell, should I add those two films as well? The Wizard of Oz features 4 friends singing, and has an entire subculture calling themselves friends of Dorothy, I can see why you wouldn't want to count The Wizard of Oz as a buddy film, because if you count a group of four as buddies, than all movies about a group of friends are buddy films, that Wikipedia lists an ensemble film like Ghostbusters as a buddy film, sets up this numerical conundrum and sets a bad example for expanding the category. I don't recall promotional material categorizing the other Disney/Pixar films as being buddy films, I believe Disney normally uses the gender neutral word friendship in their marketing. This category is problematic, as there is a separate subcategory for female buddy films and none for males, making it sound like the male is the default and that the two gender's can't be buddies with one another and friendship is male by default, I hope this isn't something we intend to replicate with the category. It's also a bit odd because I don't see female action movies or female horror films as categories for the films Alien or Aliens, this is the only female specific sub categorization listed in the film categories container. CensoredScribe (talk) 00:20, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It is more complex than that. The Wikipedia article goes on to say: "A friendship between the two people is the key relationship in a buddy film. The two people often come from different backgrounds or have different personalities, and they tend to misunderstand one another. Through the events of the buddy film, they gain a stronger friendship and mutual respect. Buddy films often deal with crises of masculinity, especially related to class, race, and gender." It seems unlikely that a portrayal of a battalion would allow such a relationship to be its focus. If the broad categorization scheme here reflects that of Wikipedia for this category, I'm fine with that. BD2412 T 03:53, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know if they are part of a battalion, but would not Abbott and Costello in the Foreign Legion be a military buddy film (the duo's films are amazingly not categorized as such), and shouldn't the Police Academy films count despite having a large cast, if Ghost Busters is apparently considered a buddy film despite having a group of four, the definition having to involve two characters from "different walks of life" is an incredibly subjective requirement, Wikipedia doesn't categorize comedic duos labeling one as the straight (wo)man and the other the funny (wo)man, different sounds more like a TV Tropes category in that we have to sort characters into different personality types in order to explain how the two are different from one another, generally accomplished by visual differences (fat and skinny, tall or short, etc.) or in later years race. Also, there may be some overlap between this category with the wikipedia category for Military humor in film, which wikiquote is lacking. I think the Wikipedia definition doesn't specifically spell out that the character are not related, but I assume that is what precludes National Lampoons Vacation which is about a family, and that most comedic romances would not be considered buddies. I'm curious why no master apprentice relationships are included on wikipedia such as Arthur and Merlin, Doc Brown and Marty McFly or the Jedi in the Star Wars prequels, often one of the two characters in a buddy cop film is new like in Training Day, and I don't think the Wikipedia article says that they both have to both have the same job in the definition, the characters can just be friends like Harold and Kumar. When half of the entries in a category violate the terms of it's definition, why include a definition that is inaccurate or a category that is subjective, the rule of two does not hold up upon inspection, nor do any of the others, the current definition is two or more characters that are from different background (or not if The Hangover, Bill and Ted or Wayne's World is any indication), learning to work together. Which of the movies I have mentioned categorized as buddy films do you believe are inappropriate, because if most of the films in this category don't follow the definition than I think reviewing the definition and the category is needed. Wikipedia has pages for sub genres of fiction like magical realism, dying earth, or paranormal romance, or film genres like Noir, but we don't seem to use them for literary works or films here; similarly most most paintings are not classified under the movement they are said to belong to, there's no reason we have to use this problematic category that centers around stereo/personality/archtypes. CensoredScribe (talk) 05:11, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * We could always turn to whether reliable sources describe a film as a "buddy film". BD2412 T 03:34, 21 May 2018 (UTC)