Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Chris Bosh


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: Delete.  Cbrown1023  talk  15:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Chris Bosh
Another wrestler page. No sources, no value, no point. - InvisibleSun 04:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Vote closed: 05:00, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete. - InvisibleSun 04:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per InvisibleSun's succinct nomination. Just to be thorough, though, I'll reconsider for original, pithy, sourced quotes (not that we've gotten any yet for wrestler articles). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep no sources, no, but that isn't a crieria for deletion. I think this one is different from the other ones in that the quotes themselves are numerous and quite long, and actually witty in some of them. Maybe cleanup and sourcing, but deletion seems inappropriate here. Dev920 09:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You raise an interest point, Dev920. Sourcing certainly isn't an official deletion criterion, and probably shouldn't be. Wikimedia articles nearly always contain some unsourced material, and many (especially at Wikiquote) have nothing but unsourced material, but the usual approach is to tag it as unsourced. WP usually uses fact and unreferenced tags, but WQ's problems are so severe that we've adopted "Sourced" and "Unsourced" headings to draw the distinction for our more discrete material. (WP prose can be hard to sift for sourced/unsourced material, but quotes are basically either one or the other.) One reason, I think, for the trend to include sourcing as an informal "requirement" is that many of the articles listed here have subjects whose quotability is so suspect that sourcing not only provides verifiability but also indicates that a respectable publisher actually finds the quotes interesting enough to quote them, giving us a useful secondary source for arguments of quoteworthiness. At least that's my observation. Adding the "sourced" demand to VfD votes should probably be taken as an opinion of the editor that the article isn't worth saving unless this groundwork is done, even if the quotes seem interesting and/or original. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 20:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - Honestly, I'm getting tired of all the wrestler heat. Just because he's a wrestler doesn't mean his page should deleted. Wrestlers are people, too, you know? I'll never understand it. Maybe people enjoy looking quotes up of their favorite wrestlers. And sure, Chris Bosh says controversial things. But it definitely doesn't deserve a deletion. You don't have to be wrestling fans. But you have to understand that they are people, too. Bosh is one of the hardest workers in the Indy scene today. Chris Bosh is no different than George W. Bush. He deserves more respect than this. "Another wrestler" isn't a good excuse. Bosh's quotes are actually entertaining, unlike Prudius and a couple others. And if you want a source where these quotes came from, here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fatudtPwdw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elaPr038XmI So no, these quotes are not made up. It'll be a travesty if this page is deleted for a main reason of "another wrestler". I find that very offensive, as I will be going pro, soon. TPO 11:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.192.69.239 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you feel that way, TPO, but the "wrestler heat" comes from the fact that wrestler articles, without apparent exception, fail Wikiquote's inclusion guidelines on three points:
 * They are often just random statements, not anything that anyone outside of avid wrestling fans would find remotely interesting or memorable.
 * The vast majority of them aren't the least bit original, except for the names involved.
 * None of them have reliable sources. You should read the link to see what we mean by "reliable", but basically, it means that a respectable, established publisher has quoted the person. This is how we determine accuracy, not by personal attestation, nor by YouTube material, because anyone can post anything to YouTube. (Or do you believe there is actually a movie called Brokeback to the Future? There's an amusing YouTube video trailer for it, after all.)
 * If VfD participants seem a little cross or even insulting at times, it's because we despair of ever finding a good wrestler article. Theoretically, someone must have said something original and pithy, and there should be established media that must have quoted them, but we have yet to see any editors dig up this information and cite it.
 * It's not quite the same genre, but take a look at Mr. T. This article contains a number of quotes with specific, reliable sources. (Currently, the Playboy article mention isn't sufficiently specific, but it shouldn't be hard to find the article title.) There are a number of quotes that don't strike me as particularly memorable there, either, and they should probably be removed. But at least the editors are trying to source the quotes. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I see what you're saying. The Mr. T thing was a very good point. But this is Independent wrestling we're talking about, not mainstream wrestling. While you have good points, there's no way that's not enough proof that Chris Bosh said those quotes. Those are ripped straight from the DVD. Plus, I have DVDs to prove he said those, and even more quotes. Users do upload fake trailers to YouTube (like the mentioned Brokeback to the Future). But there's enough proof that Bosh said those. There's really no other reliable sources, other than asking Chris Bosh himself, www.prowrestlingguerrilla.com. You can contact him there, as he's one of the owners of the promotion. He should be easy to reach. He's a nice guy and easy to communicate with. There would be no better reliable source, if the YouTube videos weren't good enough. Plus, this is an Independent wrestling promotion. Not every wrestling fan would know these things, mainly, the smarks  that look deep into it and get into the Indy scene. That's why it would be really hard to find a reliable source, if you know what I mean. TPO 1:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.192.69.239 (talk • contribs) 08:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Citing a specific DVD could be considered a reliable source, although it would be best to cite a scene that allows readers to find the place where the quote is made for verification, which is a critical part of Wikimedia editing. However, there is still a need to quote something more than just unoriginal bragging and insults. It's hard to make a case that any of this is memorable. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - I was reading some of this guys quotes and thought no way wrestlers talk like this, but I'd have to agree with Dev920 after reading Boshes wikipedia article this acticle seems different but it needs a lot of work --McNoddy 14:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, as I don't see anything very meorable, and certainly nothing properly sourced. ~ UDScott 14:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete yet another duff wrestler page.--Poetlister 18:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Duff page, as has been observed. No attribution of quotes and no intro. If you've got sourced quotes which make sense to people who don't know anything about pro wrestling, then you can try again to write a page about Chris Bosh. Fys. &#147;Ta fys aym&#148;. 18:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete  No sourced, non memorable.--Aphaia 05:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, guys. Seriously, what other source do you want? This is an independent wrestler, not a mainstream wrestler, which means there will be no coverage or quotes in magazines or elsewhere. This page is for entertainment purposes, mainly for the independent wrestling fans. Besides, keeping and cleaning it up wouldn't hurt anything. What's the obsession with getting rid of wrestlers' profiles? (Besides the Prudius one, of course. That wasn't even entertaining.) What do you think the comedian pages are for? Exactly, comedy. And Chris Bosh is a comedy style wrestler. He's a very good promo worker. At least these quotes have humor in them. Sure, some of the quotes are a little controversial. But you can clean it up if you want. You saw the videos. What other proof do you want? Like I said, if you're that into it, ask Bosh himself. There's nothing else I can say. 01:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of websites that are provided for the entertainment of the fans of any subject, including independent wrestling fans. That is not Wikiquote's purpose. Wikiquote is a collection of memorable quotes, not just anything that someone spouts, even if it's well-sourced. For example, literally millions of people have introduced themselves like Bosh is quoted as doing: "Bosh... Chris Bosh." The only notable such intro is by James Bond, for whom it is a trademark phrase. Everyone else is just copying it. Even famous people saying they're peeing and having sex isn't something any quote compendium is likely to consider memorable. If you can find any mainstream sources that find any of these quotes worth reporting, you may have an argument to keep those very select quotes. But the editors voting "delete" are, from long experience, registering their belief that this isn't going to be possible. These quotes fail what I now think of as a "MySpace quote test", after a line from Dan Tynan at PC World (see my user page for details): "And in a place where 'U are soooooooo hot!!!' passes for wit, MySpace isn't doing much to elevate the level of social discourse." Stuff like this just isn't worth recording for posterity. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, add introduction and a link tag to Wikipedia.--Jusjih 07:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.