Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Greta Garbo

Greta Garbo
The only provided quotes uttered by Garbo are from her films, which someone else wrote. The other quotes on the page are unsourced quotes from other people about her. Without any sourced quotes by Garbo, the page should be deleted. — UDScott 17:06, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 18:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Obvious Keep Excellent work. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 15:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC) Conflating fiction with reality is, IMNSO, a social ill, one for which I do not wish Wikiquote to be an enabler. "I want to be alone" is an illustrative case in point, for it has been widely misattributed as if Garbo said it for herself, of herself. In this case, the movie line ought to be cited as a context note when quoting her repudiation of the error. ~ Ningauble 18:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete . ~ UDScott 17:06, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep, now that some improvements have been made. But I still believe that the quotes from her film roles should be removed. Plus many of the quotes about her are unsourced and also should be removed (or better yet, sourced). ~ UDScott 12:53, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This raises the interesting question of whether a person can ever be a theme without having made notable quotes of their own. I think it would have to be a very unusual case, and this is not it. Delete unless sourced quotes by the subject are provided. BD2412 T 02:25, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep as revised. I think it's okay to have a few key lines from roles, but we need to set out a rationale for how much of that sort of thing is to be included, and why. BD2412 T 00:31, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The quotes about Garbo would be a decent substitute for quotes by Garbo... if they were sourced. However, they are not. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 05:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, BD2412 and EVula. - InvisibleSun 03:07, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep now that one of her quotes is sourced as well as some of the quotes about her. The quotes from the films, however, should still be deleted. It's the screenwriters who deserve the credit for them, regardless of who made them famous. - InvisibleSun 05:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, nothing appropriately sourced. Cirt (talk) 03:42, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep & Keep the sections for quotes for roles — such rules against them as some seek to apply or impose do not seem to have been any that were created very early on in the project, and if there are any rules against such that might possibly have been formally or informally agreed to by a handful of people here at any time in the past, they seem to me to be VERY presumptuous and detrimental to the project over all. Just as there are sections for "Misattributed" quotes that clarify the proper origins of some quotes, there should be sections quotes of lines made famous by actors on their pages. Very many people are NOT going to be looking for quotes from movies "as written by so-and-so", but many ARE going to be looking for quotes made famous by certain actor's performances. They can then be directed to study, or else perhaps even create pages for these screenwriters, if they don't yet exist. YES, the screenwriters certainly deserve credit, but how many people are actually going to be able to track down or find out about many of the quotes at all, at least from the information available at this project, if they are eliminated from the pages of the actors that have often made the lines famous, or their pages are eliminated entirely by people who seem more caught up in creating and applying officious rules than creating, or at least preserving, things most people have any interest in? I don't normally pay very much attention to the VfD pages when I'm around, but I did just happen to see this was up for deletion, and like a few others I happened to notice in the past, thought it absolutely OUTRAGEOUS. I took the time to add a few sourced quotes, but I really want to ask, what in hell is the advantage of any policy or rules that actually erase long standing work and actually make further progress on this project harder? If a page is well formatted and lacks a few essentials, ADD something that preserves the work that has been around for months or years, rather than simply scrapping it all, and forcing anyone else who might come along with an interest in the subject to start all over again entirely from scratch. ~ Achilles † 05:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * While I realize that many people may look to Garbo's page for her famous quotes, that still doesn't mean that they should be on her page - I believe they should be on the page for the film in which they are spoken. I'm not advocating that we should have pages for screenwriters. But to place them here is IMHO the wrong thing to do. I also do not understand why you seem to be so angry when you add comments - none of the nominations or trimming work that you seem so upset by is done with malicious intent. If you disagree, that's fine - let's discuss it (which is the point of having a wiki community). But when you start any such dialogue in the manner shown above, it's not all that constructive. And as a reminder, the genesis of nominations such as this and other trimming work was the threat of closing the entire site due to copyright violation concerns - not because any of us have any inherent perverse desire to limit what is one here. ~ UDScott 12:53, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I largely agree with UDScott. I see no problem with having entries for screenwriters, if they've penned notable quotes. They deserve the credit, after all. If an actor is closely associated with a line or two (for example, where it can be sourced that the actor continues to use that line as a sort of public signature outside the context of the film), then have it on the actor's page as well. If there's evidence of an actor having improvised a line while playing the character, the actor should get credit. If we're going to segregate script content in this way, however, we should be sure to link from the actor's page to the pages for films in which that actor had lines. BD2412 T 00:28, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep sourced quotes by and about. While I appreciate Achilles' perspective on film quotes, I disagree. There are venues that do this sort of thing, but for Wikiquote's purposes film quotes belong in film articles: they are not "quotes" of the performer. The contribution of a performer to a work may be substantial and notable, but the reading is not something we can reproduce here in writing.