Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Pac-Man (TV Series)

Pac-Man (TV Series)
This article was prod because "Poor quality quotes." The tag was removed and more of the same was added. Why would anyone consider any of this quoteworthy? Besides, none of it is adequately sourced. — Ningauble (talk) 16:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 17:00, 2 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete as nom. ~ Ningauble (talk) 16:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. Awful, unmemorable, unquotable quotes. BD2412 T 23:39, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete : Understand that fans of any game/series like to see their favorite characters' lines even though they may seem trivial and not "quoteworthy" to us. However, the quotes in the above-mentioned article are indeed exceptionally poor. Hence my vote. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 00:02, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep: The page as it is now, after my last edit, is well worth keeping. (Compare it with Sonic the Hedgehog cartoons, for example.) I really do not think "Pac-Man (TV Series)" should be deleted, and do hope this is not a hopeless case, even after so many "delete" votes. Thanks. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 11:53, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't think the version cited above comes close to being worth keeping. The criterion ought not be to avoid that which is exceptionally poor, but to include only that which is exceptionally fine. Why do I say this? Wikiquote says "We limit ourselves to quotations which are notable." "Notable" is used here in a broader sense than at Wikipedia, and we do not require that each quotation meet its general notability guideline (which would result in deleting most of Wikiquote's content); but it is not so broad as to mean nothing. At the very least it means we do not include that which is ordinary and unremarkable. A quote should have something about it that makes it worthy of notice outside its original context to be worthy of inclusion in a compendium of quotations. There is little in this article that rises above the level of banality and, in the absence of evidence that some quote is actually famous, none of it is worthy of notice. Regarding the comparison to Sonic the Hedgehog cartoons, other stuff is often poor precedent. ~ Ningauble (talk) 16:20, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The series has a Wikipedia page, so I think it having a Wikiquote page would be a good addition, even though the quotes are not "worthy of notice" in your opinion (again, fans might disagree). In any case, let's not pretend that people go to a Pac-Man page expecting to read Shakespeare. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 16:36, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * By the way, my example was just that: an example (I chose that Sonic page because it is also about cartoons based on a video game, but I could think of others). Indeed, there are probably hundreds of pages one could cite that face much larger problems than this one page does, as everyone knows. Yet, I admit that such an observation is not an argument per se; certainly, any article should stand or fall on its own merit. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 19:13, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete I don't see that these quotes are worth keeping.--Abramsky (talk) 13:11, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. ~ UDScott (talk) 14:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: The cleanup helps, but honestly I still do not see much worth keeping. Additional cleanup is needed - quotes for TV shows should be sorted by episode, not by character. Perhaps another round of cleanup in this direction, plus removal of the particularly inane quotes (e.g. "Ga ga goo goo." or "Woo hoo! Mad Pac-dog! Mad Pac-dog!" or "Ooh! I never knew I had such big feet.") I might reconsider, but as it stands, I still do not feel this page is worth keeping. ~ UDScott (talk) 14:35, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The article needing cleanup is one thing, but saying it actually needs to be deleted is another thing altogether! Thanks for actually suggesting something though. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 16:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I honestly don't know how to make any article be better. Does it like need dialog quotes?:
 * Could you provide sources for the quotes? If you let me, I can try to remove the more trivial lines; maybe then the article would be acceptable. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 22:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep — I do not find the page of great interest, nor likely to ever be of great interest to me, but I do expect it might be of at least slight interest to present or past fans of the show, whether children or adults who have fond memories of it. The quotes provided might not be deemed very "quoteworthy" by me or others, but as childish as I find most of the quotes, I do find the inclination to entirely drive away any and all childish things from the options available to others to be FAR WORSE than mere childishness, and a deplorable manifestation of the will to control what others CAN take interest in, by REMOVAL of options available, rather than providing better options, which would likely be of more enduring interest. The great mystical and ethical philosopher known to many as Jesus, in response to the closed minded stodginess of some of his disciples who sought to drive away and exclude children they considered bothersome from his presence, said, "suffer the little children to come to me." It might be hoped that by not being so infantile as to drive children or nostalgic adults away because they might find such juvenile statements as are on the page somewhat interesting, some of these might eventually come across more statements of profundity and worth on the project than they otherwise would, thus to at least a small degree enhancing the intellectual and emotional wisdom available to their growing minds and mindfulness. Driving them away might instill or nurture in some an abiding resentment and fixed hostility to the project, similar to that of those who are deeply and profoundly offended by being criticized or derided at all, even in the most moderate, jovial, casual and just ways, and consider such criticism a justification of promoting all manner of extremely repressive and suppressive behavior, regarding any who oppose or differ with them to any significant degree. Blessings to ALL. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 11:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Noticing that not much had been done or altered since I voted to Keep the page, I have just worked on the page more, in a way that might make the page more interesting to anyone not so juvenile in age or inclinations as to take much delight in many of the quotes, and yet not in so sub-juvenile a disposition as to be resolutely hostile to such juvenile interests, and added a note at the Village Pump which could perhaps attract more attention to the issue. I believe the retention of the page is strongly desirable, even if many of the quotes are not, and that deletion of it would be a discredit to the project, and would exhibit states of strong hostility to diversity which I believe promote apathy and fear in some and disgust and revulsion in any wisely intelligent and knowledgeable person. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 14:11, 5 March 2013 (UTC) + tweak
 * What would Jesus do? — This is a question on which different people have different opinions. Matthew recounts that when Jesus addressed the multitudes on the coast of Judea beyond Jordan, and he healed them there, he bade his disciples suffer little children be brought unto him, that he should put his hands on them, and pray, and that after laying hands on them he departed thence . Matthew does not report that he also bade the little children address the multitude with childish things. That he might have done so, or might as well have, strikes me as too conjectural to use as a precedent or injunction here. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:12, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If it is desirable to retain the page but not the quotes then one might wonder what it is that the page is to retain after the quotes are removed. This is the most peculiar argument for retaining quotes (of what else, after all, is a Wikiquote page to consist?) that I have ever seen. The argument that retaining childish content might entice readers to stumble upon other, more meritorious pages is, at least, a nobler objective than enticing children to view advertisements. The same argument for "Ga ga goo goo" could be made just as well for pagefuls of "poop". Though many children find such things enticing, I believe this sort of pandering is detrimental to the project. There is often an element of play in doing enjoyable work, especially volunteer work, but that is not the same thing as a children's playground. Controlling what can interest anyone is not the issue, but whether to pursue those interests here. There are plenty of options available on the internet for children at play, and it is not our mission to provide a better playground. Perhaps we could do a better job of gently telling them to play elsewhere; but I think we should, as Matthew reports Jesus did, give them our blessing and move on. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:12, 6 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment: While I continue to believe that the current version of this page that is up for discussion does not have the level of quality that is necessary for a page here, in the interest of a compromise when we obviously have some strong thoughts on both sides, I have created an alternative stub page for consideration (see User:UDScott/Pac-Man (TV Series)). While the quotes still aren't really all that great, I believe this is much better. I've also listed all the episode titles from the first season. Any thoughts? ~ UDScott (talk) 18:43, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * As I noted at the VIllage pump:
 * I commend your extensive efforts, and though I would prefer that the images be retained, as I thought they made a fairly amusing sequence, I can accept it as a replacement, not having much actual interest in the page beyond that impelled by my defense and promotion of certain ethical principles, but I continue to object to trying to establish or develop quite so stringent standards on pages — which in this case required efforts on the part of several people who would normally not be inclined to pay it much attention at all. I much prefer manifesting a live-and-let-live attitude than a live-and-let-die one, and reject a live-and-let-kill one, if it is within my practical abilities to prevent needless destruction or suppression of innocent or proper aims. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 23:58, 5 March 2013 (UTC) + tweaks
 * I had not noticed anyone here actually advocating murdering anybody, but if you believe this to be the case then you should probably take it up with the Foundation's legal department rather than respond to it on-wiki. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:01, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Very disappointing comment coming from you, Ningauble... It is very clear that the "live-and-let-live attitude" Kalki mentions (as opposed to a "live-and-let-die" one) refers to the "destruction or suppression" of articles, not people. I really fail to see how your snarky comment adds anything of value to this discussion. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 22:15, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I am pleased by your support of poetic use of words against the overbearing oppressions of rather vapid literalism that has grown apparent at this site, but I am not entirely displeased that Ninguable was attempting to show at least some wit and sense of humor, even at my expense. As a person not so weak as to fear or strongly resent relatively innocent derision and joking, I will be properly charitable and allow that he was attempting to show a charitable and witty capacity by taking a mildly witty play upon some common terms of expression in a literal sense they were clearly not intended. Yet, I will use the occasion to note that far less generous or tolerant people of very low and foul mentalities and inclinations often take the words and rules that some people devise with perhaps mostly good but often very naïve intentions and very casual concerns to excuse and justify even the foulest excesses of depravation and destruction and denigration and exclusion. Even within the most standard use of terms one can certainly be a killer of options and of hopes as well as living beings — and I am very competent at doing that myself in many ways, IF I truly believe it to be NECESSARY — and as a generally fair minded absurdist I much prefer to let others keep their options for action and interpretation of events and words and other circumstances as open as possible, as well as maintaining options where I keep mine even more broadly free than they might easily dream possible, without a very extensive imagination and a very poetic sense of justice devoid of vengefulness, and yet very apt within the context of the absurd situations which often arise in our absurd world. I know that my attempts at honest explication of things can be very verbose — which is one reason I generally prefer acting without much explanation to talking to others I know might have difficulty understanding many aspects of the complexities of my perceptions. Blessings to all. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 12:11, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, it was a joke... Hmm... this reminds me of something. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 15:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC)