Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Phi Kappa Psi

BD2412 T 01:54, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Phi Kappa Psi
Unremarkable testimonials and promotional materials posted on YouTube, unlikely to be quoted by anyone not associated with the organization. — Ningauble 15:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 16:00, 23 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete as nom. ~ Ningauble 15:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep : I believe the standards being employed by people in creating candidates for erasure of articles and quotes is increasingly ridiculous. I have had growing contempt for how the processes have been employed for some time, to eliminate ideas or subjects outside of one's own particular interests or concerns. Even though I might have little interest in Phi Kappa Psi, and not be inclined to look up quotes on the organization, this is a site made for the gathering of quotes, and a major fraternity is certainly as legitimate a group as one might wish to find quotes about as any other social group. ~ Kalki (talk &middot; contributions) 16:16, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Your expression of contempt is duly noted, though it is hardly new information. At issue in this nomination is not the notability of the subject, but the content of the article. As you note, there is utility in compiling such material for some purposes. I do not think it ridiculous to solicit community input on whether it suits Wikiquote's purpose. These remarks, being from a recruiting event or self-published by the producer on YouTube, are not known to be quoted by notable sources independent of the subject. (I have no problem with contributor selections of less-known quotable material from sufficiently notable works, but this is distinctly different.) I have sufficient doubt about whether this crosses the line into using Wikiquote as a host for promotional materials or for affinity group vanity pages that I thought it worth raising the question. There are other venues where such material could be more appropriate. ~ Ningauble 20:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete This page is pointless and fails manual of style.(StarWarsFanBoy 21:00, 16 April 2010 (UTC))
 * Keep In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a member of Phi Kappa Psi. I'm also the creator of this page.  Before I created it, I searched for and found notability rules for Wikiquote.  Here's what is written, with the emphasis added by me:"Notable: We limit ourselves to quotations which are notable. A quotation can be notable either because it has achieved fame by itself, but more usually because it was said by someone notable, or appeared in a notable work."YouTube was used as the citation because it establishes, without a doubt, that these men, all of whom are notable, actually said what is being quoted.  The origins of the video clips are from taped acceptance speeches for awards that were given to them by Phi Kappa Psi.  I saw the original airing of these speeches years ago, and they were more comprehensive than what is now on YouTube.  So, what is on YouTube?  Yes, these clips were compiled and edited into a promotional video.  That does not make them any more, or less worthy for inclusion.  It seems to me that condemning the delivery mechanism is little more than shooting the messenger.  NYCRuss   ☎  23:27, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The question is not whether the quotes belong, as they could easily be included on the pages of the individual speakers. The question is whether we should have a page of quotes about a specific organization. I'm inclined to say this should be a weak keep merge (see below), as there are indeed quotable quotes on the entity, and it is an organization with a 150 year history and over 110,000 members in that time. BD2412 T 00:47, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, per Ningauble. I do not see anything remarkable or memorable about these quotes, despite the fame or notability of the speakers. And this seems to me to be a bit narrow of a theme to have a page. ~ UDScott 01:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I hadn't paid much attention to the content of the page until a few minutes ago, having just skimmed briefly, but I believe if there were no other quotes of any note, the following one is certainly notable:
 * Let us be what we say we are: a fraternity, not a club, run by men, and not boys, and based on ideals, not expediency.
 * Far too many people are caught up in personal and partisan interests, and fall into paths of expediency which allow or impel them to ignore or deny the worth of ideals that are not expedient to their particular preferences — and I believe this has become an all too common practice and form of behavior or on the wikimedia sites, and what began as a very broad based activity open to everyone is becoming increasingly closed to people who don't go along with the will of those who have attained certain "ranks" within certain cliques. ~ Kalki (talk &middot; contributions) 02:23, 17 April 2010 (UTC) I have largely been reserved and silent in the past about my disagreements with many things that have been occuring, and know that such statements of candor as I am increasingly prone to make are not likely to promote my own personal popularity among many people — but I am attacking practices that have become all too common — and I don't mean to condemn any specific people as if they were not capable of better and worthier activity — if I thought that, I would probably remain silent, and just go on working within increasingly constrained parameters of activity, irritated at the fact, but not inclined to pointing out such things as I realize might not be popular observations to make. I am truthfully concerned about people and the project, and thus do I make my honest and sometimes rather harsh observations. I am not harsh out of malice, or any merely personal stake in many issues but out of deep concerns which are far more intense for many reasons than I care to even try to fully explain. ~ 02:38, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikiquote exists as a resource. Granted, there are topics for which it is not worth our time to maintain any collection of quotes, but Greek letter organizations are historically significant. We have an article on Fraternities and sororities. Perhaps we can merge these quotes there and redirect the title, as the page already appears to have some sections pertaining to individual organizations? BD2412 T 02:49, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I would not object to this being merged, but I think it is substantial enough already to exist on its own. There is now also a Lambda Chi Alpha page which someone has just created, and as it only has one quote on it, might be more appropriate to merge, if additional quotes don't soon accumulate for it. I wouldn't mind having separate pages for any or all of the major fraternities and sororities exist here. I might rarely or never be that interested in looking up or accumulating quotes for any particular one, but I am sure there are some people who would be. ~ Kalki (talk &middot; contributions) 04:25, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep It amazes me that individuals would seek to delete a page just because they think it's pointless, are not interested in the topic and wouldn't seek to edit or add to the page. Isn't the entire point on WQ, WP, etc...for individuals to add stimulating and relevant information as it merits? There are now quotations for both Phi Kappa Psi and Lambda Chi Alpha and the quotations posted on both pages is specific to those organizations. Let them stay...add to them...tweak if need be...and move on. Focus your energy on improving articles, not deleting them. This entire debate is counter-productive and a waste of everyone's time. Wrightchr (talk 19:53, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Changing my vote to merge as a section into Fraternities and sororities. Many Greek organizations have a few reliably sourced quotes directed towards their members. If these are merged, with section redirects, then all of those quotes will be in a single place, and someone looking up a particular organization will be taken directly to the section for that organization. Everybody wins. BD2412 T 23:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I would not object to merging the Daniel quote. Even though he does not appear to be particularly notable outside the organization, it seems suitable for a more general theme page. ~ Ningauble 17:21, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge into Fraternities and sororities. Other than the Daniel quote, these really just read like guys who liked their fraternity, which is very nice, but not Wikiquote-relevant.  I don't in theory have anything against a page on this topic, but based on the quotes offered, it does not appear to be a subject that people have been eloquent or pithy or poetic about.  (And now that I've written it out, I can't believe it took me a month and a half to work out that opinion.) -Sketchmoose 21:11, 25 June 2010 (UTC)