Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Soldier's poem


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: delete. Since we now have a page on Soldiers including this quote, I've redirected the title there. BD2412 T 20:06, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Soldier's poem
Disputed PROD: the page contains a quote (that may well be a good one) that is unsourced and is purportedly attributed to an unknown soldier. The page is also filled with misspelled words and extraneous text. — UDScott 01:34, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 02:00, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. ~ UDScott 01:34, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete because this folk variation on Frank B. Camp's poem is not generally known by this title. I think The Yale Book of Quotations (cf. citation on article talk page) handles this correctly as a note to an entry on Camp. I am not sure we want an article on an author for whom only one quote is (mis-)remembered, but I would not object to merging the quote into a theme article like Hell. ~ Ningauble 12:30, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep The quote is used in a fairly well know media outlet (A very popular video game) for which many people know it. Searching the quote on Google, and you will find more people looking for it under the attributed quote than Frank B. Camp's quote. Just because a quote has a (Simi)-unknown author (we know where it was found and who it was written to) does not make it less of a quote. This quote should stand along for 3 reasons. 1) It is far better known (Google search the two, see which has more hits) in this form than Frank B. Camp's derivation 2) It is quoted (or misquoted according to previous votes) in a very well know video game, Medal of Honor: Frontline in the exact form as in the article. 3) Although the author is unknown, the origin of the quote is well known and accepted as an epitaph.(Also, spelling/grammar/reference issues have been fixed 'extraneous' words could be removed if the history of the quote is deemed unimportant.) 75.76.252.178 20:04, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment The author of this variation is now known. 75.76.252.178 20:04, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, there still remains no proper source for this quote (or the identified author of it). The provided link just has the quote at the top of the page, providing Pfc. James A. Donahue as the author, but without a source. ~ UDScott 20:36, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well the "unsourced" website contains a transcript (and photocopy) of PFC Donahue's personal journal in which he writes, "We made a plaque for Bill today." The website is also maintained by Donahue's son. Also on the webiste is a picture of the actual quote inscribed on a "PFC William Cameron" grave. Short of being there I cannot provide much more evidance. (Also, there are 11 refrences for a 300 word article. This is a better sourced article than most!) 75.76.252.178 22:06, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The cited anecdote does not claim that it was an original composition. It is very common for memorial epitaphs to repeat well known sayings without attribution. There is no doubt that this folk saying had its origins in WWI, not at Guadalcanal during WWII. The wide popularity of Camp's 1917 poem is attested by his words being closely adapted or shamelessly copied shortly after their original appearance, e.g.:
 * The New Age, Vol. 26, No. 2, February 1918, p. 91, attributed to C. A. Winston, Army Field Clerk "somewhere in France"
 * Nebraska Horticulture, Vol. 8, No. 3, May 1918, p. 1, attributed to "a chum of Dewey McCelland" at Camp Carchefer.
 * The Paper Makers' Journal, Vol. 17, No. 7, June 1918, p. 30, from the corresponding secretary of the International Brotherhood of Paper Makers, East Angus Local No. 154
 * Songs From the Trenches (September 1918), ed. Herbert Adams Gibbons, p. 179, attributed to PFC William Childs, 104th Infantry
 * The Rotarian, Vol. 14, No. 3, March 1919, p. 107, attributed to D. L. Fisher, Second Kansas Infantry
 * Having thereby clearly entered into the domain of folklore, it is not appropriate for one popular variant on a fragment of the poem to have a separate article as an independent literary work. ~ Ningauble 16:50, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

(and good job referencing Whose Line Is It Anyway, by the way; I obviously agree with you that the page shouldn't be here, which is why I put it up for deletion) EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 21:47, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment IP address 75.76.252.178 is now Highspeedchase1 Highspeedchase1 15:54, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete We're not Wikipedia, and the page as-is strikes me as an attempt at an encyclopedia article. We don't have pages for individual quotes, which is what this would be once you strip away the extraneous content. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 16:01, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I assumed wikiQuote would be a place to find information on quotes. The reason the page was created is because I was curious to find the origin of the quote. After googleing, all I could find was forums with people looking for the same information as myself. So I thought, "surely wikiquote will have it; they have everything." When they did not, I added it and researched its orgin and author. But I guess it is better to remove it. I wouldn't want people coming to wikiquote to look for information on hard to find quotes. You all should stick to documenting every line of "Whose Line is it Anyway?" and listing quotes by the super well known. Highspeedchase1 16:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Unhelpful snark aside, yes, you're accurate in saying that you made an incorrect assumption about Wikiquote's purpose. I think you did a good job with the page, so I'm not sure why you're taking this personally; it's merely out of scope for this project. If you were to pop it over to Wikipedia, it'd be far more welcome than it is here. This has everything to do with the individual projects' respective purposes, and nothing to do with your work.


 * Update: I have added an entry on this quote, with a book citation for the variant, to the Hell article, where Hell on Earth seems to be relevant to the theme. (Conversation with Saint Peter is such a popular trope that it might eventually be given its own theme page.) ~ Ningauble 16:50, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It is nice to get a logical argument with references. Although I still believe to be a standalone quote (see reasons 1,2, & 3 above), I concede that it is better recognized in a Hell/St. Peter/WWII section. Thank you for your contribution. Highspeedchase1 17:26, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It just isn't Wikiquote's style to devote a separate article to a stand-alone quote. This is why EVula remarked that this article about a quote looks more like a Wikipedia article. The fundamental approach here is to collect groups of quotes in pages about authors, works, or general themes. ~ Ningauble 12:36, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have also created and added this quote to Soldiers. The quote is now findable in the two subject matter pages to which it relates, which should suffice. BD2412 T 20:50, 22 July 2011 (UTC)