Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Sukavich Rangsitpol

Even excluding the excessive commentary from users who do not appear to be involved in Wikiquote in any other capacity other than this VfD, the nomination rational appears to be one for cleanup, and it's not clear, as others pointed out, why they should result in deletion rather than revision. G M G talk  16:16, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Sukavich Rangsitpol
The apparent "quote" attributed to this person is a speech from the Asia-Pacific Regional Consultation on Adult Education, Jomtien, Thailand, 16-18 September 1996, shown in the report from UNESCO. Quotes are cut from several paragraphs of the subject's keynote speech (shown in pages 53-56). I expressed my previous concern that the excessive amount of quotation may not qualify as fair use and/or something compatible with CC-BY-SA. UNESCO Copyright itself also permits personal, noncommercial use, which is not compatible with Wikiquote. Some other quotes are misattributed as it was in the research article by Pimpan Dachakupt (which an experienced editor has kindly assisted the removal). I do not consider that at this point, anything can be done to save the author's page. — G(x) (talk) 06:24, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 07:00, 31 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep — an experienced editor posted a cleanup tag on this article in June, which it still clearly needs, despite the tag having been recently removed, but I do not perceive any problems with the page so severe as to require deletion. I might do some cleanup on it within the next week, but do not have the time right now. ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 11:30, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

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 * Keep --Risto hot sir (talk) 22:16, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep (reasons below) --223.24.169.34 05:17, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep (reasons below) --Yosakrai (talk) 04:15, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep (reasons below) --นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 03:40, 31 July 2019 (UTC)


 * I started to believe that the discussion appears to be futile, since I notice the pattern of vote-stacking by the users who appear to be editing in the same subject, and they tried to (incorrectly) making a canvass assumption that other editors who edited the page without bringing up the serious issue into picture endorsed the retention of the page. I will withdraw this nomination and leave it to the discretion of Wikiquote administration since I no longer has interest to pursue this further, given that the user in question also attacked me for not doing any research but itself failing to provide proper rationale when I already argued with reason. They also wanted the deletion page to be in an unorganized manner, so I also decided to remove the collapsible box as well. --G(x) (talk) 04:34, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

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 * Keep
 * Education for Peace
 * https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jcrdaen/1/1/1_KJ00006742072/_pdf

Assistant Professor Dr.Pimpan Dachakupt Wrote about His Excellency Mr. Sukavich Rangsitpol Public Statement.

There are many recorded about the Minister of Education Statement (ie. https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/New_aspirations_for_education_in_Thailand_towards_educational_excellence_by_the_year_2007 etc.)


 * Economic, social, political,environmental and population development in Thailand have created a series of problems.

As Minister of Education 1995-1997 (He suggested that the problems must be addressed by education.)

The following were his objective of his Education Reform.

(https://books.google.co.th/books?id=8Gt9AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=sukavich+rangsitpol+creating+peace+for+mankind+and+national+security&source=bl&ots=23fG5ObAOk&sig=ACfU3U0PuDzaxEO8RC3t0PwUBnWzrdnL1A&hl=th&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi15oGLvfPiAhXRbX0KHShYDFwQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=sukavich%20rangsitpol%20creating%20peace%20for%20mankind%20and%20national%20security&f=false The book writen by Americans Professor about his 1995 Education Reform .)

The following is Minister of Education ‘s Objective of Education Reform.


 * The objective of education reform is to creat learning individual ,organization, and society. An educated person or the authentic learning outcome should possess the following abilities and characteristics which are based on Thai cultural heritage and appropriate level of education: good physical and mental health,critical thinking, intellectual inquisitiveness ,professionalism, sense of responsibility, honesty,selfsacrifice,perseverance ,team spirit, adherence to democracy,and love for King ,Country and Religion.

The goal of the education reform is to realize the potential of Thai people to develop themselves for a better quality of life and to develop the nation for a peaceful co-existence in the global community.

It is His Excellency Mr .Sukavich Rangsitpol ‘s goals and objectives of Education Reform.

It could not be Assistant Professor Dr.Pimpan.

John Cogan (Professor of Education, University of Minnesota, USA) and Derricott, Ray (Director, Centre for Continuing Education, University of Liverpool) · 2014 in Citizenship for the 21st Century: An International Perspective on Education, wrote that Thai Minister of Education (1995-1997)saw education as "the instrument for human development, creating peace for mankind and national security.

The quotes not are misattributed.Yosakrai (talk) 09:00, 30 July 2019 (UTC)


 * My battles with Sukavich Rangsitpol's detractors

To improve the encyclopedia ,I am concerned about righting great wrongs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tendentious_editing#Righting_great_wrongs

Yosakrai (talk) 09:03, 30 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Thai Politicians

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Category:Thai_politicians

There are 3 Thai Politicians ‘s Quote in Wikiquote. Why is the Politician with the best reliable sources from English Literature is nominated for deletion ?นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 10:11, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

My discussion in the Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Sukavich Rangsitpol stands:

The UNESCO speech can be considered a quote.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/His_Excellency_Sukavich_Rangsitpol_Education_Reform

This include the quote that was not misattributed.

There were Several Experienced Editors who kindly approved that it was his work.

All of his work will be

Please do not remove other contributions comment. I would like my comment to be the recorded.

Therefore ,In the future there would not be the editor who did not do any research nominate the page with

waste the experienced editor time again .นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 03:40, 31 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The name list of Experienced Editor who kindly approved and edited Our Politician Works in Wikisource.

User talk:Billinghurst

User talk:EncycloPetey

User talk: Beeswaxcandle

User talk: Mukkakukaku

User talk: Samwilson

User talk: Xover นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 03:50, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/His_Excellency_Sukavich_Rangsitpol_Speeches

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Teachers%27_Learning_in_a_Changing_World

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Sukavich_Rangsitpolนโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 03:52, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 03:40, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

The quotes from personal, noncommercial use, is compatible with Wikiquote. Because Wikiquote is not personal and commercial site .(UNESCO will not consider Wikiquote commercial site) The Japanese Research that mention his Statement why he launched his Education Reform has to be his quote.He launched the Education Reform based on the quote that the Japanese Government found it is valuable enough to be recorded for more than twenty years.
 * Vote closes: 07:00, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep

The experienced editor did not kindly assisted the removal ,he wrote that he wouldn’t mind the proposed for deletion. (two different things)นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 09:41, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

I would like my comment to be seen by the mobile editor as well as the other editor.

I believe that the other editor (unsigned would like his or her comment to be seen too.)


 * Keep

I add the Quotes From the Subject Own Statement http://www.seameo.org/vl/library/dlwelcome/publications/report/thematic/96symp31/96annex2.htm His Excellency Sukavich Rangsitpol Minister of Education 1995-1997 / Teachers' Learning in a Changing World 223.24.169.34 05:17, 30 July 2019 (UTC)นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 03:48, 31 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Other Materials
 * Discussion of "นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์
 * Keep

The quotes from personal, noncommercial use, is compatible with Wikiquote.

Because Wikiquote is not personal and commercial site .(UNESCO will not consider Wikiquote commercial site)

The Japanese Research that mention his Statement why he launched his Education Reform has to be his quote.He launched the Education Reform based on the quote that the Japanese Government found it is valuable enough to be recorded for more than twenty years.The experience editor did not kindly assisted the removal ,he wrote that he wouldn’t mind the proposed for deletion (two different things)นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 09:41, 29 July 2019 (UTC) Collapse bottom


 * Discussion of Yosakrai
 * Keep
 * Education for Peace
 * https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jcrdaen/1/1/1_KJ00006742072/_pdf

Assistant Professor Dr.Pimpan Dachakupt Wrote about His Excellency Mr. Sukavich Rangsitpol Public Statement.

There are many recorded about the Minister of Education Statement (ie. https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/New_aspirations_for_education_in_Thailand_towards_educational_excellence_by_the_year_2007 etc.)
 * Economic, social, political,environmental and population development in Thailand have created a series of problems.

As Minister of Education 1995-1997 (He suggested that the problems must be addressed by education.)

The following were his objective of his Education Reform.

(https://books.google.co.th/books?id=8Gt9AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=sukavich+rangsitpol+creating+peace+for+mankind+and+national+security&source=bl&ots=23fG5ObAOk&sig=ACfU3U0PuDzaxEO8RC3t0PwUBnWzrdnL1A&hl=th&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi15oGLvfPiAhXRbX0KHShYDFwQ6AEwAXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=sukavich%20rangsitpol%20creating%20peace%20for%20mankind%20and%20national%20security&f=false The book writen by Americans Professor about his 1995 Education Reform .)

The following is Minister of Education ‘s Objective of Education Reform.


 * The objective of education reform is to creat learning individual ,organization, and society. An educated person or the authentic learning outcome should possess the following abilities and characteristics which are based on Thai cultural heritage and appropriate level of education: good physical and mental health,critical thinking, intellectual inquisitiveness ,professionalism, sense of responsibility, honesty,selfsacrifice,perseverance ,team spirit, adherence to democracy,and love for King ,Country and Religion.

The goal of the education reform is to realize the potential of Thai people to develop themselves for a better quality of life and to develop the nation for a peaceful co-existence in the global community.

It is His Excellency Mr .Sukavich Rangsitpol ‘s goals and objectives of Education Reform.

It could not be Assistant Professor Dr.Pimpan.

John Cogan (Professor of Education, University of Minnesota, USA) and Derricott, Ray (Director, Centre for Continuing Education, University of Liverpool) · 2014 in Citizenship for the 21st Century: An International Perspective on Education, wrote that Thai Minister of Education (1995-1997)saw education as "the instrument for human development, creating peace for mankind and national security.

The quotes not are misattributed.Yosakrai (talk) 04:15, 30 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep

I add the Quotes From the Subject Own Statement http://www.seameo.org/vl/library/dlwelcome/publications/report/thematic/96symp31/96annex2.htm His Excellency Sukavich Rangsitpol Minister of Education 1995-1997 / Teachers' Learning in a Changing World 223.24.169.34 05:17, 30 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Here, I would like to note the counterargument to นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ and Yosakrai.
 * นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ alleged that the quote from personal, noncommercial use is compatible with Wikiquote, which is wrong, since the content posted on Wikiquote must be CC-BY-SA (this means that there should be no commercial restriction in reusing the content). However, UNESCO source simply did not allow commercial use. We are not talking about whether UNESCO and/or Wikiquote is a commercial site or not, but on how the license applies to the two organization. The fact that an experienced editor has "kindly assisted the removal" concerns the quote that was misattributed, and has nothing to do with this Vote for Deletion.


 * Yosakrai argued that the quote was not misattributed, however, the exact same quote appeared in the journal article by Pimpan Dachakupt, and it was not said that Pimpan quoted Sukavich in a verbatim manner. I therefore don't believe that the quote was actually said by the subject. The alleged quote is a discussion of his work in academic journal, and presenting it as a quote by him is a serious misattribution. This "misattribution" issue has already been discussed with an uninvolved editor who removed it.


 * There has been more attempts to put the quote from other places, such as SEAMEO. SEAMEO is not known to release the content under free license. --G(x) (talk) 07:49, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Assume good faith
1)https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith Yosakrai (talk) 06:36, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

User talk:Yosakrai talk who has kind heart even though he was accused by the other editor.

He should be the one to be remembered of his action.

The world would be better place that way.นโยบายเรื่องทหารเกณฑ์ (talk) 07:56, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Assume good faith
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
 * I have assumed more than good faith and decided that the attempt is "futile". I am withdrawing the deletion nomination, believing that the discussion with best interests simply doesn't work if the participants refused to do so. --G(x) (talk) 06:58, 31 July 2019 (UTC)