Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Talk:Phil McGraw

Talk:Phil McGraw
Unsourced quotes from a living people. They were taken from the main article page and posted to the talk page to survive, but there is no room for unsourced quotes. It makes no sense something is copyvio in main namespace but not if in talk page. Also most of them are unmemorable or makes no sense out of context like "Are you kidding?". --Aphaia 17:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 18:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete as nom --Aphaia 17:36, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. In the previous discussion at Meta on the proposal to disband Wikiquote, I raised the question of what would be the copyvio status of putting unsourced quotes on a talk page. John Vandenberg made this reply: "Moving them to the talk page would be good from a policy point of view. It would deter unsourced quotes from being added, because the "Unsourced" section wont exist on the main page. "Also, a commercially published edition of wikiquote would use the page content, not the associated discussion pages, so having unsourced quotes, or over-fair-use quotes on the talk page is less problematic from that point of view. It is more reasonable to utilise the non-profit status and DMCA safe harbor provisions to allow the talk pages to be a bit messy - the talk pages are there for the project, and are not part of the product." In our discussions about new guidelines, we have proposed transferring unsourced quotes to talk pages or else giving each article a time-limited subpage in which unsourced quotes would be listed until the time expired and the subpage was deleted.  So I would say that the transfer of the Phil McGraw quotes is okay from a copyvio concern and okay from our own current discussion of the new guidelines. - InvisibleSun 18:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree with what you have written InvisibleSun, but I do feel that leaving the unsourced quotes on a talk page (especially if the main page is to be deleted) could be problematic. I would rather see them be moved to a subpage, with an expiration date as we discussed. That way if they are not ever sourced, they would at least be deleted and not live on forgotten on a talk page. ~ UDScott 18:17, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment:I do not think it is wise to keep any unsourced quotes on site permanently. If the quotes are from a living person then they need to be blanked from the article space promptly. Personally, I do not feel comfortable putting unsourced quotes from living people on a talk page so I will blank them. I'm undecided on whether moving the quotes to a temporary page is a workable solution since it will require extra significant extra work to monitor the pages and then decide whether to delete them. I'm not sure that adding this extra work is practical for the benefit that will be gained by keeping them visible on site. Maybe a better solution would be a clean up template noting that unsoured quotes had been blanked. The template would remain in place until someone decided that further sourcing of those particular quotes was unlikely. FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 19:11, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: There is, of course, another solution for removing unsourced quotes: namely, simply to delete them. It would not really result in the loss of quotes for anyone who wants to source them, since these quotes could still be found by going back through the edit history. (Articles with no sourced quotes, on the other hand, will continue to be deleted.) From a housekeeping point of view for such an understaffed site as ours, perhaps this would be the most practical solution. - InvisibleSun 19:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. I've primarily been working on articles of living people and blanking is what I've been doing so far. If I feel a quote might be good to keep if researched, then I leave a note on the talk page to remind myself and notify others. I see this as being the most practical solution. I'd be happy to mark all the talk pages with a notice that I blanked unsources quotes if that is helpful. FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 19:52, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment Hm...I moved the quotes to the talkpage and was going to return today to try and source as much of the information as I could and delete the rest. Having now seen the PROD on the talkpage and reading the comment left by User:Aphaia on the article PROD page, I think I'm useless to contribute here and will retire. As I'm the one who moved the information to the talkpage, I have no objection to it's being deleted immediately, and everything else I have contributed since my arrival. -- Javier MC 20:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC) Stike my rant.-- Javier MC 21:02, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think sorting this out is an appropriate use of the talk page. Talk pages could be abused, but I do not think this case is so extensive as to pose a copyright problem. If sourced, a couple of them might even be worth including in the article. One could begin by striking the useless ones and removing them as consensus develops. ~ Ningauble 14:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)