Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Template:Spoiler


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: Delete. Both sides made good points, with votes to delete having slightly more than keep, but the delete votes give stronger points and reasons to why this should be deleted, mainly linking to how this is a Wikiquote and that quotes from films and books are not needed to have a spoiler warning as it isn't necessary in such reference works. Also, I did not count comments and votes made after February 19, the initial close date, as this VfD is long overdue...

Now before deletion, does anybody know a good way to remove the template link on every article this template is linked to? Can a bot possibly handle it? I'm not good with bots, so I wouldn't know... I will start a discussion at WQ:AN on this if anybody has ideas that could help. Thank you. &mdash; RyanCross (talk ) 20:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Template:Spoiler
I'm here to propose Spoiler, one of the heavily used templates in WQ be deleted. Wikiquote is supposed to be a quotes compendium; not a website such as IMDB or something else. In a regular quotes compendium, spoiler warnings are never used. Spoiler warnings make the pages seem unprofessional. Using spoiler warnings is inappropriate, in my opinion. -- Pmlineditor    ∞    09:03, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 10:00, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep The fact that this template is much used suggests that the community wants it. I am not sure what regular quotes compendium Pmlinediter has in mind but the needs of a printed dictionary of quotations or sites like Brainyquote are clearly very different from ours.--Ole.Holm 12:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Further to this, I think the biggest thing that makes this site look unprofessional is the arbtrary bolding of quotes or parts of them. We should fix this rather than delete a useful template.--Ole.Holm 21:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: This is tangential, but I completely agree about the bolding. I've even tried to fix it and been reverted with no explanation.  It seems utterly arbitrary to me; can anyone explain what is meant by it if it is not?  It seems like saying certain quotes are better than others, but if that's so shouldn't the unbolded ones simply be deleted?  Sorry, off-topic rant over, but this has been really irking me. -Sketchmoose 17:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - I see no harm in having this and I don't see how it lessens this site. I know that many people appreciate knowing if the quotes on a given page reveal plot points in films or other works. ~ UDScott 13:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak keep I think it's fair enough for recent works that people might not have seen; but this VfD might be a useful opportunity to check where it's unnecessarily used. I can't imagine why it should be on classic and widely known works such as Nineteen Eighty-Four and Pride and Prejudice. Whatever else Wikiquote may cover, these are directly equivalent to other literary quotation compendiums, and as Pmlineditor says, they don't warn the reader. Gordonofcartoon 18:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Pointless template.(StarWarsFanBoy 21:15, 12 February 2010 (UTC))
 * Delete per nom, such a template has no place in a collection of quotations. BD2412 T 15:11, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: WARNING: this is a boring procedural comment. For a heavily used template, I don't think it is good practice to the vfd-new tag, because only VFD watchers will be aware of the discussion. It is better to include the vfd-template-new tag so that people who are interested in the affected articles are notified. ~ Ningauble 16:05, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I have switched tags accordingly. ~ Ningauble 16:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 *  Weak delete. Mostly harmless, except it tends to encourage the practice of adding unquoteworthy content just to note a plot point. I think this unintended consequence is a greater problem than the impact on appearances. Disclosure: I actually used the template once myself, in this article. (I did it with humorous intent, and as a clue to context.) ~ Ningauble 16:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Having slept on this and reviewed Wikipedia:Spoiler, I am changing my vote from "weak" to full Delete. This is a compendium of quotations, not an entertainment guide, and our style of presentation should reflect it. We should include, and readers should expect to find, famous and quotable words such as would appear in literary criticism. We should not concern ourselves with the conventions of reviews and promotions, and visitors should not be encouraged to treat Wikiquote like a fan site. ~ Ningauble 16:32, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Aphaia 16:55, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep For people who love movies, Internet spoilers are extremely annoying... I'm assuming that we would prefer to come off as caring about the movie experience, hmm? Stanistani 22:33, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Spoiler warnings have no place in reference works.Proabivouac 06:53, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. I guess I don't really get the point of spoiler alerts. If I'm reading a plot synopsis on Wikipedia, for example, I accept that I'm going to find out what happened; why else would I be reading it? I can understand, of course, why someone wouldn't want a critic to reveal the ending of a new film; but is there anything analogous to that here? Wouldn't a film have to be out for a while, and no longer unfamiliar, before it accumulates memorable quotes? If we put a spoiler tag on a film, when will it be removed? What would be our standard for deciding what's new and what isn't? Would it be when a film is still in theaters, or when it isn't yet available for sale? I would agree with Gordonofcartoon that we shouldn't place alerts on classic works, but when is classic status attained? Would we need an alert, for instance, lest a reader learn the secret of Soylent Green? Lastly, are we talking only of films here, and no other medium? What would be the standard for books? Will teachers or students be angry with us to discover (spoiler alert!) that Othello kills Desdemona; that Jane Eyre marries Mr. Rochester; or that Ishmael is the sole survivor from the Pequod?  - InvisibleSun 06:21, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment A spoiler warning is more important on WQ than WP because the unaware reader might not realise that a key plot twist will be revealed as it may well be by a quote. There are many articles about very recent films on WQ; see Category:2010 films and Category:2009 films; I would be much less concerned if there were a rule against articles on recent films.  The argument about other mediums seems a red herring.  If there is a recent book with a key plot twist revealed by a quotation I might well want a spoiler alert.  However it would be absurd to have one on Shakespeare.--Ole.Holm 22:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * How about "Luke, I am your father"? BD2412 T 18:10, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, excellent example.--Ole.Holm 18:28, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it would be absurd to put a spoiler quote on Empire Strikes Back on the strength of that revelation, or any other. Anyone visiting a collection of quotes from a particular media source should be cognizant of the likelihood that quotes from that source may reveal details of the events transpiring therein. We may as well change the name of this website to Wikispoiler. BD2412 T 01:30, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, Proabivouac, and InvisibleSun. Wikiquote is a reference work, and it just seems obvious to me that reading quotations from a book or movie could or will spoil the plot. -Sketchmoose 17:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I am unclear if Sketchmoose is agreeing with me "that reading quotations from a book or movie could or will spoil the plot" (something I can easily prove to be true) or if he has made a typo.--Ole.Holm 18:52, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Sorry, to clarify: I do agree that reading quotations will spoil the plot, but I don't think we need a template announcing that. I think anyone reading quotes must already be aware of that. -Sketchmoose 20:11, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Surely our first rule should be "Do no harm". I would hate to have my enjoyment of a film damaged by wikiquote and BD2412 gives an excellent example of how it might happen.--Mariner 13:06, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And yet BD2412 voted to delete! This is actually a good example of what I described above: a line that represents a significant plot point but does not stand on its own as a brilliant quote. Compare literary treatments of a similar situation in the Oedipus myth, when he discovers the stranger he murdered is his father: many are pithy, wise, eloquent, or poignant. StarWars is a fine story, but this fan-meme is hardly a quotable quote. ~ Ningauble 15:10, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes BD2412 fails to realise the strength of his own argument. But there are many famous quotes that do not seem to be that brilliant, from "To be or not to be" to "Come into the garden Maud" but are famous for being famous and by great writers.--Ole.Holm 21:43, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Quotability can be premised entirely on the fact that a quote is in fact quoted. BD2412 T 01:18, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * A reasonable premise, and one that ironically implies it can hardly be a spoiler—hence the absurdity of spoiler warnings in a collection of famous quotes. ~ Ningauble 18:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Should this VFD be closed by now and the page gets to disappear from the Wiki? Its passed its closing time and most of the users picked delete.(StarWarsFanBoy 01:13, 2 March 2010 (UTC))
 * Agreed. It looks like a no consensus, although slightly favoring delete to me. That said, the reasons cited to delete this are much stronger imho. (Although I might have a COI). Pmlineditor    ∞    13:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete If I'm looking at a page of quotes from a particular work, shouldn't I expect plot details to be revealed? If I'm trying to avoid spoilers, then I'm not reading the page in the first place. The template is at best redundant and at worst unsightly and unprofessional. &mdash; $wgUser 06:35, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.