Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/The New Adventures of Winnie The Pooh


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: DELETE. Argument against the pithiness of material represented from the programs is stronger and supported by the majority of people commenting. FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 11:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

The New Adventures of Winnie The Pooh
Quotes are all very trite. — Collingwood (talk) 22:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 23:00, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete as nom.--Collingwood (talk) 22:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep — however trite the quotes might seem or be, the page is well constructed and provides for expansion beyond the merely trite, or the trite practices of upholding trite rules devised by trite minds to discourage or even eliminate much freedom of others to attempt to honestly and fairly contribute in ways they consider trite. ~ ♞☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 23:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment I have no wish to hinder freedom of speech, but pages are regularly deleted on WQ on the grounds that they have no worthwhile quotes and I see no reason why this page is different. Of course, if better quotes are added I shall withdraw this VfD, but i would be surprised if such quotes can be found.--Collingwood (talk) 12:11, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, per nom and additional comments by Collingwood. This has nothing to do with rules or impinging on others' freedoms, but rather with the quality of the provided quotes. Should better quotes be listed, the page could survive, but in its current form, I believe it should be deleted. ~ UDScott (talk) 14:08, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: An article on this derivative work was previously deleted at Votes for deletion/The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete because: "read a book". There are certainly original and brilliant exceptions that stand out like beacons in the "vast wasteland" of children's television. I do not believe this derivative work is one of them. Frankly, I feel that it is an embarrassment for a compendium of quotations to cheapen and contemn the original literary work by including trivial imitations. Rather, we should serve as a resource for those whose interest is piqued by television to discover the genuine article. ~ Ningauble (talk) 15:44, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

 Comments : In response to a few of the above remarks, I will make note that I do not consider any sincere criticism of this page as any obviously extreme assault on freedom of speech, and am not intent on constraining such in any way in my sincere attempt to provide support of its retention — but what I do oppose the presumptuousness that I believe is becoming rampant on the part of a few here, accustomed to knowing that it only takes a very few who can be relied upon to agree to exclude MUCH, to actually do so. I believe that the whole project and the wiki principles of growth and expansion without overly restrictive presumptions and prejudices is undermined by increasing tendencies to add restrictions, obstacles and clear hostility to many forms of contributions and long established freedoms or norms. I believe this is making much of this project more dull, dreary, and vulnerable to even further angles of attack as various modes of apathy and or outright hostility to some of the constructive capacities and diligence of others set in. I see NO harm at all in permitting this page to remain — and the listing of episodes presented appears that it might be an actual response to the previous deletion, where quotes from the show were provided but it appears that the whole page was deleted on the technicality that they were not cited to episodes. Today's QOTD is one I find appropriate to this issue:


 * As a rule, indeed, grown-up people are fairly correct on matters of fact; it is in the higher gift of imagination that they are so sadly to seek. ~ Kenneth Grahame

The show is a children's show: "suffer the little children" to come to US — where what might not be memorable to rather dull adult minds might eventually find its way to the page, with the contributions those more alert to their concerns and interests than we are might provide. Many might hopefully come to learn from this project more indications of humanity's wit and wisdom than ways to be exclusive according to what I honestly consider to be some increasingly elevated and overly restrictive notions of "quotability."

'I am sometimes harsh in my rhetoric, and increasingly so lately, because many people seem oblivious to how much harsher their actions are than need be in excluding'' anything that stands outside many of the increasingly narrowing and constricting criteria and definitions some propose of what can or should be provided to this project — other than even more narrowing and constraining rules and practices — or proposals and suggestions to adopt them in ways which further inhibit and impede many forms of contributions of others. '''

Not having watched the show, but glancing at IMDb, here are a couple of quotes which I in my sometimes childish attitudes find somewhat notable. In my mature lack of interest in many childish things like many children's programs as well as childish restrictions and rules, I do not know the episodes from which they derive — though they have been quoted to the show at IMDb — which for all its faults and flaws seems FAR more welcoming to diverse contributions than we have lately:


 * Piglet: And for the longest time I thought Rabbit didn't like her.
 * Winnie the Pooh: Sometimes people care too much. I think it's called love.
 * Piglet: Oh... Do you think we should tell Rabbit?
 * Winnie the Pooh: No, I believe he already knows.




 * Tigger: Help! We're sinking! Abandon ship! Tiggers and tiggers first!
 * Piglet: What about piglets?
 * Tigger: Umm... it's their duty as captain to go down with the ship.
 * Piglet: Oh, dear. In that case, my last act as captain is: Tigger, you're captain.
 * Tigger: And as captain of his ship, I proclaim you captain.
 * Piglet: No, you are.
 * Tigger: No, you.

It is easy to pass off responsibility for a sinking or diminishment of the original openness of wikis to a broad range of ideas and standards — which is what truly made the WIkimedia projects as great as they are. There are no captains here, and no commanders — there are only CONTRIBUTORS of time and energies — and many more of the forms of constructive and imaginative contribution seem to be increasingly under assault in various pernicious ways. I have always accepted that other styles than current norms and standards might gradually be adopted over time here — and I have seen such changes occur in usually beneficial ways. What I most object to is increasing attempts to EXCLUDE much and to change many practices and policies radically and SWIFTLY, with little or no time engaged in discussion, and to IMPOSE "cut and dried" PRESCRIPTIONS on others, and I believe it increasingly evident that we are gathering at least a few people here who are more interested in being COMMANDERS than CONTRIBUTORS in any genuine sense of the word. I actually would not include anyone who has as yet commented on this page on a list of such people, but there are some people lately active here I definitely would, and I generally abhor the impulse to command and control others in absolutist ways, even in those whose urge to help others and contribute in healthy ways to humanity is more well developed. I believe this ONLY occurs where people are most free to honestly express opinions and provide suggestions — without anyone at any level absolutely or automatically excluding much — and I believe this page is a good-faith effort on the part of someone which DESERVES to be retained for growth. ~ ♞☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 16:44, 8 March 2012 (UTC) + tweaks
 * The quotes I mentioned above were sourced to episodes of the show by an anon IP, and I believe those to be of quite sufficient notability to preserve the page, and that such diligence as was involved in recent additions to the page worthy of appreciation by others. ~ ♞☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 21:44, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I somehow doubt that when Matthew recounts how Jesus bade his disciples "suffer the little children" to be brought forward and receive his blessing, (Matthew 19:13–15) he had in mind that they should also take over the teaching. These quoted imaginings are not wisdom from the mouths of babes, they are the product of studio writers. It is of course a matter of opinion whether, in such examples as you cite, their work merely rises above the level of sheer banality, or whether it begins to hold a candle to the work of A. A. Milne from which they draw inspiration. ~ Ningauble (talk) 15:43, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.