Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Gerhard Kocher


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: delete. — Jeffq 12:04, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Gerhard Kocher
Lots of quotes on this page and on many theme pages, but no obvious notability -- google search found nothing except wikiquote, wikiquote mirrors and other quote collections, into the 3rd or 4th page where I stopped looking. Can anyone find any notability? ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 13:15, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Vote closes: 20 Aug 2005 20:00 (UTC)
 * Vote closes: 27 Aug 2005 20:00 (UTC)
 * VOTE CLOSED. Result: delete (4 Deletes [1 from anon]; 2 Keeps). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 12:04, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: This article does have some information, but it's apparently difficult for our primarily English-speaking community to verify easily. Since it seems promising nonetheless, I took some trouble to notify each of the 5 anonymous editors that we'd like some help on verifying this person's notability. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:05, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: I did find one reference: the book Vorsicht: Medizin (Aphorismen zum Gesundheitswesen und zur Gesundheitspolitik) (English: Caution: Medicine (Aphorisms for Health Services and Public Health Policy) [my rough translation]) by Gerhard Kocher; publisher Ott Verlag (2000), ISBN 3722569303. I have no way of knowing whether this is a very popular or exceedingly obscure book. We again run into the question of how well-known should a person be in the English-speaking world to be considered notable for inclusion on en:Wikiquote. Hopefully our Swiss or German friends can help with more information. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:21, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep The quotes are interesting, and obviously somebody said them. Put a header on it requesting more information. MScott 10:56 4 August 2005
 * Above vote was added by 67.154.144.146 at 17:54 (UTC). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:05, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: The point is the notability of GK is in question. It's not a matter of having said them, it's a matter of being notable enough to be on WQ. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 17:59, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The article already has a VFD notice at the top, which is an implicit call for more justification. In addition, as I said above, I've added a explicit request for more info on its talk page (the standard place to raise such issues) and on the talk pages of each of the IP users who added material. The Wikiquote community doesn't need to prove something is notable; the contributing editor has that onus. I only went through this considerable effort because I believe this article has a good chance to survive, but the best way to ensure that is to provide the requested evidence. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:34, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Gerhard Kocher is totally unnotable. He himself added these citations, as he added his own citations to several articles of the German Wikipedia (where they have been deleted meanwhile). 212.254.x.y are his IPs, known from German Wikipedia. G.K. is absolutely unknown in Switzerland. --81.62.64.163 00:14, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I'm Swiss and I've got his Book "Vorsicht, Medizin". Not all of Gerhard Kochers aphorisms are brilliant, some of them are pretty lame - but there's no need to delete them. --Thomas 19:39, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: This is just getting more confusing. I went to de:Wikiquote and found that our article is a small subset of their article, apparently all from the book I mentioned above (which they'd noted on their article's talk page last year). I also found that there is no de:Wikipedia article, although, not being a sysop there, I don't know if it's been deleted before (as 81.62.64.163 may have implied). 81.62 provides no evidence that 212.254.* is actually Gerhard Kocher, and even if it was, it is allowed in Wikidom to edit your own articles if you're article-worthy (even though it's understandably frowned upon, for neutrality reasons). We could just assume that a lack of both a de:Wikipedia article and a published English translation of Vorsicht, Medizin makes this insufficiently notable for en:Wikiquote. I'd prefer to have more data, if possible. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:32, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: extended the vote by a week. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 09:51, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. After 2 weeks, I'm unimpressed by the arguments either for or against this person. But Wikiquotes are a good place for unnotable people to get an audience, because they have much fewer eyeballs to check these kinds of issues. If Gerhard Kocher isn't notable enough even to get an article in de:Wikipedia, let alone en:Wikipedia, I think we might wait until the German folks settle this before allowing his fans to use en:Wikiquote to promote his material. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:17, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete convinced by Jeff's arguments. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 10:35, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: de.wp seems to have deleted GK's article. My German is non-existant, are there any German speakers who can see if they can find the VfD page for GK's article? Then we can use babelfish to translate it and see some more enlightening discussion. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 12:22, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * My German isn't great, either, but based on the page history of Gerhard Kocher shown in "View deleted pages", I think their GK experienced 2 Schnelllöschungen (speedy deletions) on 22 Oct 2004 (implying either an obvious SD (SL) candidate or an even older VfD (LK) that an anonymous editor tried to override twice in one day). I haven't been able to track it back any further yet, and now something seems to be wrong with wiki search. There is no "Wikipedia:Löschkandidaten/Gerhard Kocher" (the German equivalent of WP's VFD archive format), but they may use a different system. I found no trace of GK in their deletion log, but I saw something that implied the standard log wasn't authoritative for activity earlier than 23 Dec 2004. Anyway, it looks like a long-dead issue there. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:00, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete I concur with Jeff. Both this article and de equivalent, and de wikipedia articles were started by an anon, 212.254.97.144. And our article has no other substantial contributors. If an article will be submitted by same IP addresses, it would be a good speedy candidate. From other addresses, or another person, it will be better to consider its notability again. --Aphaia 20:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


 * The person, who created Gerhard Kocher twice, was Gerhard Kocher himself. The IP 212.254.97.144 belonged to him. I have no real proof, but good evidence for that. The person with this IP subscribed by "GK" several times, see e.g. . --83.76.75.245 13:09, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.