Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Last Words in Shakespeare


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: Kept; lack of consensus. --Aphaia 03:15, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Last Words in Shakespeare
Seems better to put those quotes on relevant plays' articles. MosheZadka 04:56, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Vote closed: Kept; lack of consensus to delete (2 deletes, 3 keep). --Aphaia 03:15, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete MosheZadka 04:56, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or Merge to Hamlet, if the article has this quote not yet. --Aphaia 04:58, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Once withdrawn, because the article in question is still editing; perhaps I will vote again at the end of discussion. --Aphaia 16:42, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I've added the quote to Hamlet already MosheZadka 06:22, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep --Clotten 21:32, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: The idea is this: I am one of those people who would love a better online source for Shakespeare's texts. Death is one of the largest ideas in all of Shakespeare (with maybe Time, rule, and the idea of unions of love as other candidates), and it is not at all unreasonable to give such a theme it's own page.  If all of those ideas were explored in any depth, the Shakespeare page would be unreadably-long.  At the very least, give me (and the wiki population) time to explore the page a little before we just delete it (I only made it a number of hours ago). --Clotten 07:27, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: The point, I believe, is that if we had a "theme in word" policy, wikiquote would explode from the sheer number of articles (each decent TV show has lots of themes, each movie, etc. etc.). We are happy to have those quotes on the specific plays in which they happen. Arranging quotes by play makes more sense. If you want to have a review of a "Death in Shakespeare", please feel free to write such an article on wikipedia, using quotes from various pages on wikiquote as reference. By the way, is there a reason for you not to add the quotes to the plays' pages too, if you insist of adding them to this article? What you are doing now creates a burden on the maintainers to copy quotes. MosheZadka 07:58, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * You and I have different paradigms; either a page on Shakespeare's characters' last words is worthwhile or it is not. You have no empirical proof and neither do I.  Therefore, we simply need more feedback: if other people can help us by giving their opinions and one of us is supported by a majority, then the person will be shown to be correct (at least in a limited sense) by the Wiki population.  And then, even if a later population disagrees, at least they can delete it.  --Clotten 08:21, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Moreover, Shakespeare is one of the largest subjects of attention, both academic and popular, of any writer in Western history. Surely if anyone is worthy of detailed, specific and extensive pages, it is someone like Shakespeare I'm going to sleep, so at the very least please do not delete this anytime soon.--Clotten 08:24, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment:(To Clotten) I would be happy you estimate our formatting canon on voting instead introduce your own and you read our rule. Vote will closes two weeks later as written so on the above. --Aphaia 11:42, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that; I should have read over the rules before commenting here. That being said, I have fleshed the page out considerably, and now I think that it can be judged on its own merits.--Clotten 18:22, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't mind and I accept your apoligy willingly. I feel I can guess how you were upset when you found it was listed on VFD - every editor have such experience. And again, thank you for your understanding. --Aphaia 19:20, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It was judged on its own merits ab-initio. You were the one who insisted on judging it on extrinsic merits ("Moreover, Shakespeare is one of the largest subjects of attention, both academic and popular, of any writer in Western history), a rather shaky foundation. I noticed you still insist on not adding the quotes to the plays' pages. Why is that? MosheZadka 04:16, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the point is that the quotes are not of much interest on their own, hidden in a mass of famous one-line sound bites. However, when put together, each different quote reinforces the next, creating a page that is much stronger that the sum of its separated parts.  Think about it this way: would the Shakespeare page be improved if all of the quote pages for his individual plays were merged into it?  And, to stay relevant, what about the Famous Last Words page?  Why isn't that page deleted and all the individual quotes added to the speakers' pages? Let me attempt to supply you with some proof, so we can base this conversation on something more than our conflicting opinions.  In The Arden Dictionary of Shakespeare Quotations (1999), "death" is the second largest topic in the index, after time and before love.  With the possible addition of language, those topics are literally the biggest and most-explored ideas in Shakespeare.  If you absolutely insist, I would not mind creating a page for Shakespeare's quotes about death and adding the Last Words to that page.  But, otherwise, the fact remains that this is no fringe topic.  And, given that the page is well constructed page that includes both very popular and famous quotes with less famous but revealing, and, come on, interesting quotes, I once again propose to you that it is a worthwhile bit of organization.  And, to get away from the merits of the page and to touch upon your personal comments, I'm not insisting on not putting the quotes on other pages.  If the last words page loses the vote and then I remake the page anyway and don't put the quotes on the already-existing Shakespeare pages, then I would be "insisting". But please don't try to make me look spiteful. I most certainly will add the quotes to the pages from their respective plays if this page is deleted.  --Clotten 21:30, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep: It's an interesting compendium and that's Wikiquote's purpose. (I'm still new though.. am I mistaken?) --Slac 16:15, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, with some reservations. Might make a good subcategory in Famous last words, assuming fictional characters are permissible there. --RPickman 19:31, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep: Richard Allen 00:08, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) An interesting collection. Yes, could also link from other sections. I like the multiple-link features of Wikipedia - I do not believe it should be hierarchical, like printed encylopedias.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.